Who the F' are the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men? (HOTD Intro) (TUH #1)

[00:00:18] Welcome to the Unreal Hour Hello and welcome to our very first podcast. Yay! I'm Fiona. Hey, I'm Emma. Here at the Unreal Hour we'll be taking a deep dive into our favourite current and some of the past sci-fi and fantasy TV shows that we love to watch.

[00:00:40] We'll do some episode breakdowns, some of our fantastic predictions, a lot of latest show news and listener feedback, some more stuff. We've been longtime fans of all things fantasy and sci-fi. Love to talk about it!

[00:00:55] We spend all our time watching fantasy shows and then listening to podcasts about it. I don't forget reading the book. Yeah, we love to immerse ourselves in all those things and we decided that we were going to sit down and watch some stuff together.

[00:01:07] And then we thought, why not just start a podcast with us? Do you have such wonderful chats when you did to share it? Yeah, exactly. Definitely, definitely. So, the upcoming release House of the Dragons season two, we thought we'd start at the beginning and cover season one.

[00:01:22] So, we'll come to Catch the Dragon. This is our intro episode. We'll be counting down to the release on June 16th of season two. So we're going to have a season one rewatch and then take a look at the season two trailer before the fried in blood begins.

[00:01:38] I really hope you guys are excited as we are. I am so buzzing. I cannot wait. I'm the girl that watched the first season of Game of Thrones and then went and got all the books, binged all the books and then sat for the next four years

[00:01:51] waiting on some original material. Yeah, this girl has everything. She needs an incident room for this. To actually, to definitely... I think before we get into that, we really want to do some kind of background into season one and really where the beginning of the story came from.

[00:02:08] Like before the dance begins, the Targaryen tension really had been building for quite a while, hadn't they? They certainly had. So everything after Aegon's conquest is dated AC. Then I think it's 129 AC that the Dance of the Dragon kicks off. So you've got 130 years of history there

[00:02:26] and that's just in the time of the Targaryens. There's so much more, not just the Targaryens but the Westerosia as well. So let's take a look at the Targaryen dynasty at pre-House of the Dragon. It's a very interesting story. It's a story about Aegon the Conqueror Targaryen,

[00:02:43] first of his name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men. Wait, hold on a minute. Who actually are they though? The Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men. Yeah, yeah. Actually, no. Because you've got all this wonderful information and I've been like, hmm, okay, bro.

[00:03:00] This is really interesting. So that's one of those things, isn't it? It's one of those things that we've taken for granted and I don't think I've ever really thought, who are the Andals? Who were the First Men?

[00:03:11] You just take the little tidbits that you get in the dialogue. Yes, things I completely had taken for granted and not having read the books only watched the Game of Thrones series. However, I've read the Fire and Blood book but there's other books that I haven't read

[00:03:25] so it's really great hearing all this information that you've got and it really ties some of the stuff in. Yeah, it's so interesting. So on that note, I'm so glad you asked because I went and took a wee look further back to figure out who these people were

[00:03:40] and did you know that they crossed paths before? I did not. So long before Argyreans came to Westeros, the Andals, the Rhoynar had both crossed paths with Valyrians but I'm getting ahead of myself. We're going to get into that. You've absolutely done your homework and I have not.

[00:03:56] No, you have. You just didn't go as far back as I did. That's okay. I'm going to learn as much as our listeners are and enjoy every minute of it. Fabulous. So let's dive in. Start with the first man. It seems like a good place to start.

[00:04:15] Yeah, totally. And I'm going to ask you some questions for the bits that I don't get which probably most of them. No bother. That's what we're here for, to inform. So in the beginning, which would be called the Don H.

[00:04:30] So do we have like a timeline of how far back that was? So because historical records get a bit bigger, the further back they go, there's a bit of ambiguity about that. The records say anywhere between 8 to 12,000 years before the conquest. So this is what BC is?

[00:04:47] This is BC, yes, before conquest and AC after conquest. And who does that start with? Is it the first men? Are they the first sort of forms, beings? No. In the beginning, it was just giants and children in the forest. That existed in Westeros. So like, where back?

[00:05:05] Is there any information on these giants? Are they like literal giants? Is that anything to do with white walkers? Well, they were quite huge. No, nothing to do with the white walkers, but they weren't civilized. They didn't live together. They were loners. They slept together. Sure, yeah.

[00:05:19] Just like first sort of beings. Yes, exactly. But if you want to look back on a little bit of history, I think the idea for these giants comes from what people used to believe back in our medieval times. So say for example,

[00:05:32] well, maybe not even as far back as medieval. I think of the time of like the water, the roses, you're talking there, the 1400s, mid-early, mid-1400s. They believed back then that the Romans that once conquered this island were giants. Oh wow. They were these amazingly powerful beings

[00:05:52] that came in and conquered their land. I mean, absolutely with everything that they achieved, you can see how people, maybe more primitively. Yes, because they were so advanced. Absolutely. So I think that this is where the giants thing comes from.

[00:06:06] Yeah, it's not giant as a form in their deeds. A more powerful giant. Yeah, the children of the forest. I think a lot of that comes from old myths, Kelpies and Pixies and Fairies and... Oh cool, yeah, yeah. I would love to hear about the first men.

[00:06:21] So the first men arrived in Westeros in their thousands. No idea what the migration was about, where they were coming from, what they were trying to escape maybe. Where did they turn up? So at the south of Westeros, Dorn used to connect to Esos.

[00:06:38] There was a bit of land there. All right, cool. So they came in via that. It was an extension of Esos, which they now refer to as the Broken Arm. Much like our landscape has changed Yeah, definitely. So over thousands of years,

[00:06:51] there's places that are now under water. Yes, exactly. And that is what this is. The arm was broken by some great magics that the children did when they were fighting against the first men. It was their last attempt to try and push them back.

[00:07:05] Also, the swamp lands around the neck that leads into the north. According to the legends, was above ground in Les Swampy and some great flooding happened. But later on, the maesters in the more modern times, all of referring to it. I gave it from the times as modern.

[00:07:23] The maesters believe that the children wouldn't really have had that kind of power. Yeah. And this is superstition being handed down as legends. A lot of people take it as history. So, answer your question. It did answer my question. I think I'd like to know

[00:07:37] what made them a part of history? Right. So, arrived in their thousands, as I said, and spread north. They spread west to east. So, did they ever actually go into the north? North. So, we're talking about Game of Thrones time on the wall. They never spread north.

[00:07:53] No. I mean beyond the neck. Really? Yeah. They never got into the north. Right. The lands ruled by the Starks. Again, takes you back to sort of Roman conquests and they never really managed Scotland. No, they never really did. No. They didn't make it up here. They didn't.

[00:08:10] You had the Hedrians wall which is very famous. But then you also have another wall. It's sort of Falker, a bonus kind of way. And you can see bits but I forget what it's called. I can't remember either. Yeah, that was another wall. I know what happened.

[00:08:26] I just couldn't tell you what names were. Look at this stuff. That's terrible. Apologies guys. Look it up. Absolutely. Look it up. Let us know and I'll probably go and look it up myself. It's totally good. I mean it is still there in bits

[00:08:39] if you know what you're looking for. You can totally go dog walks. If you have a dog, take your kids. It's up to you. Go on your own. Yeah, it's definitely. No, it's a really cool thing to do.

[00:08:49] So I believe George Martin actually got the idea for the wall when standing on Hedrians Wall. Absolutely. You can see where his ideas have come from. Yes, definitely. Visiting Scotland he stood on Hedrians Wall and he thought, I'm going to make a 800 foot wall in my story

[00:09:04] because this wee pebbly thing isn't even big enough. That's it. Yeah, there was many wars. The first men came in and they just start building and chopping things down and eventually they chopped down a couple of these wear-wear trees

[00:09:19] which the children of the forest were to them were sacred. This is how they communed with their gods. And did the children of the forest chase them off? They tried. They weren't bothered about these guys moving in but when they started touching their trees they were like, uh-uh.

[00:09:36] So they fought back. Eventually a pact is reached between the two species to coexist. The children agreed to head off into the forest to live and would stop attacking them as long as the first men just left their trees alone.

[00:09:52] So the pact was made on a little island, the God's Eye, which is on a lake in the middle of Westeros just south of Harrow Hall. It's a very spiritual place where I believe the green men existed for a very long time.

[00:10:09] And the green men, are they their own community? There's not a lot written on them. Yeah. So I just found reference to these green men who protected the trees but not a lot more about them. I would love to be able to dig deeper into that

[00:10:25] but certainly not any of the literature that I read did it go any deeper than that? We're going to have these moments when we're talking. I'm sure there's other books out there. Maybe it's in the wiki or something. Maybe we can have a wee look in the wiki

[00:10:38] and find out more about the green men. But feel free to send us a message and keep me informed if you know these answers. I wish I knew more about them but they're not so much relevant to where we were going

[00:10:50] with the story which is probably why I didn't get into it so much. Yeah, this pact was made and what followed next was thousands of years of what they called the Age of Heroes. Okay. So in this time we have kingdoms rising and falling.

[00:11:05] At one point there was a hundred kingdoms I believe in Westeros. This is the Age of Shibbari. This is men saving damsels in distress and fighting dragons. I like to think about very much as, you know, like Arthurian legend, like Merlin. Oh, sad.

[00:11:21] That's the kind of time that I think that George is trying to depict from this era in his history. Again, not a lot of literature or anything on that time. It's more songs and stories that were passed down through generations to the point that you're not even sure

[00:11:37] how much of it's true and what's exaggerated. There was things like the famous who slayed a dragon but he was apparently a member of the Kingsguard but the Kingsguard didn't actually exist until her guardian times so he couldn't have been a member of the Kingsguard

[00:11:53] but that's the way people tell the story so things get distorted through time in his story. And that is history itself, isn't it? Exactly. It's just gossip. It really is. And it's embellished and it's great that George Martin has built this whole world and this whole history.

[00:12:08] Yeah, definitely. These little snippets of things. Now, this happened but nobody really knows why. And this happened but nobody really knows if it's true. I mean, it leaves him open to loads of little tangents. Definitely. I think he has enough tangents going in the moment though.

[00:12:23] Just one or two. One or two. So after the Age of Heroes, what came next? One of the last stories in the Age of Heroes is The Long Night. I think I remember The Long Night being mentioned in Game of Thrones.

[00:12:35] So yeah, it was mentioned very many times and of course it came around again towards the end in a big way. Still my face stand out of Game of Thrones by far. The music, the fighting. I don't know a lot of people

[00:12:50] complaining that it was really, really dark. How many times have you seen that episode? The whole episode? I know I've watched the opening scene maybe 20, 30 times because I wrote an essay on the music. The whole episode I would say maybe 10 times. Only 10. Only 10.

[00:13:10] I haven't watched any other episodes from that season again. Well, I can confirm your favorite. Yeah, definitely. Whatever anybody says about the end of Game of Thrones I still love that episode and as far as I'm concerned if that was the end I would have been happy.

[00:13:23] Who cares who sits on the Iron Throne? No big gays. I just wanted to see a big fight with zombies and dragons. So going back to the Long Night originally. Yes, the original Long Night. So last week a generation and in the time children were born, lived

[00:13:40] and died without ever seeing daylight. Well, that's a good one. Yeah, it's like that in Scotland. I was just gonna say that. It's like Scotland. It's like a Scottish winter feels like that. What do you mean it's still January? No, no.

[00:13:55] So yeah, bad stories from the Long Night. Old men wandered off in the middle of the night to save their families to be able to have to feed them. To let the younger ones live. People starved. And then, of course, the others came. The white walkers. They arrived.

[00:14:14] Mounted on Dead Horses which we saw in Game of Thrones. Awesome, by the way. According to the legends they also rode giant ice spiders. I would have loved to have seen that. They must have tripped there. You could have thrown an ice spider in them.

[00:14:27] No, an ice spider would have been really cool. I'm never going to give Jon Snow something to do with Ellie's little sister, so they... Rather than running away from that dragon. But yes, like I said, it went on for a generation.

[00:14:41] People were dying left or right and said or they couldn't even see the end. But it did eventually come to an end and the stories on how it came to an end were really interesting. The story of the red sword was really interesting.

[00:14:55] It was really interesting to see the whole of the world because it didn't just happen in Westeros. It happened all across the known world and there are varying accounts from across the world on how it happened. These are entertaining. You're going to love these. In Asshai, they believed

[00:15:13] that a hero with a red sword named Azor Azai was a hero with a red sword. Yes, Alessandra believed that Stannis was Azor Azai Reborn. And then she changed her mind when she met Jon Snow and decided it was him. So yes, that is exactly what it is.

[00:15:29] That's great. I love how that ties in the background. For me, they didn't know that. You take it back to taking these things at face value. This red priestess comes along and starts going on about you're Azor Azai Reborn. None of us ever think to figure out

[00:15:45] when you watch something. But that's what I love about the world that George has created because he's gone to so much detail. He doesn't just throw things at you for face value. He writes a complete and total backstory for it. I loved

[00:16:01] reading Game of Thrones the first time. The one and things that stood out for me the most is you don't get this so much in a TV show. You do because you get to know characters over time. But in Game of Thrones when someone walked into our room

[00:16:15] and there might be a couple of guards standing by the door guard one and guard two would have a name, a family, a backstory, relationships and all of these things were all explained in detail. You got to know even the little guards

[00:16:29] that were just stationed around in doorways doing nothing. Yeah, that really connects you to the story and the character. Yes, definitely. So where are we? Ashai, a hero with a red sword. Where are we? We believed the sun had itself for a generation

[00:16:45] because it was a shame. We don't know why the sun was ashamed but I went away because it was embarrassed and went and had... I like that, that's quite sweet. It's really cute. Only down to the deeds of a woman with a monkey tail was the disaster reverted.

[00:17:01] Do we know why she had a monkey tail or what she did with it? No, no we don't. I'm not even sure I want to. Sounds naughty. But yes, this woman with a monkey tail saved the day. Good on her. Good girl. So, the Roynar

[00:17:25] This is one of my first personal favour actually. The Roynar I believe some of the lesser gods because their main god was the river the river Roy. So, the river Roy but the lesser gods had been bicking in arguing so much that it brought about this darkness

[00:17:45] and so a hero came along and convinced all the lesser gods to come to a meeting in which they could all sing a beautiful song together to bring back the sun. Oh that's quite sweet as well. That is adorable. I like that way better

[00:17:59] than the woman with the monkey tail. Yeah, it's just weird. I still don't know what she did with that monkey tail. I love that one. That's my favourite. The gods had a meeting and then they all sang a song together to save the day.

[00:18:11] Thanks to the deeds of of course the hero. Have you ever had a rap battle? Yeah. So, and finally of course the Westerosi version of events. A hero journeyed to find the children of the forest. They joined forces to fight the darkness

[00:18:29] which was known as the Battle of the Dawn and they overcame the white walkers. They didn't quite take them out. Arya style, they just chased them off. They all retreated back to the north. I knew that from the show. They're coming back. There's that impending

[00:18:45] long night once again with these really imposing creatures. Yes, definitely. Always destined to return. I don't think we'll be coming back after what Arya did to them. No she got them good. She got them good. Without a monkey tail. With no monkey tails in sight.

[00:19:01] But those men became the night's watch. Okay. Yeah, so another little Easter egg in there. This brings us to the end of the Age of Heroes and this is how the first men settled in Westeros. Most of the Northerners are very, very proud of sending

[00:19:17] from the first men. Eventually the first men did make it into the north. So does George tell us where in the timeline this is? Do you think it's just implied? It is implied. Again it's that fake history thing. I don't think

[00:19:29] you put any sort of date on it but for what I could gather we're talking a couple of thousands before Congress. Okay. We've still got a few thousand years to go. Meanwhile in Valeria a new power was rising. So while the people of Westeros were recovering

[00:19:47] from the long night and Essos, the Valerians were becoming a force to be reckoned with. Right. Up until then the main power in that area had been the Ghiscari. They were an empire built on slavery. They were the first empire, the first known

[00:20:03] empire of the entire known world. The... Might be jumping ahead but I'm just thinking limited knowledge is this maybe where slavers bathed in originate or... Absolutely. Yeah that is exactly where it is. Old Geese is a little bit further down the coast from Slavers Bay but certainly

[00:20:23] within the area. But the Valerians came along and they wanted to rule the show. They claimed to be descended from dragons. Valeria was a freehold so they had no one ruler. The people all had a say. Every man had a right to carve out

[00:20:39] his place in the world. Like the Viking-esque kind of. I think of it as like very Roman, like Roman Republic. You know, we are Senate who make all the main decisions but there was no one leader and as Vikings did tend to

[00:20:53] they still had their kings. They did but I think there were more progressive people. Oh definitely in that respect that women could fight and everyone kind of had their own say and you know farmers claimed their own bits of land and they

[00:21:07] were all kind of master of their own little patch basically. And that's how the Valerians they just spread out further and further and further. Vikings conquered as they expanded and trapped. They ship people. The Ghiscari, not that I am aware of actually I didn't see anything about ships

[00:21:25] that came up in what I read but their great city was a big walled city. The Valerians had five great battles with them that are documented and the score is Valerians 5, Ghiscari 0. It didn't go well for them and on the last one they came along and they

[00:21:41] absolutely decimated the walls of their city salty bears so that nothing could grow back. But the one thing that they did take from the Ghiscari unfortunately was slavery. Alright, okay. There is no record of the Valerians having slaves before that so unfortunately they took the worst thing

[00:21:59] about their enemies and took it on themselves. But slavery exists in history, in reality and trying to see both alike. But let's not get political. Well, and not unless it's Westerosi politics. How are you feeling now, Sam? I am really myself in from politics.

[00:22:17] I have to do that myself. Anyway, any Ghiscari that were left were killed or enslaved and the Ghiscari now speak Hivalarian. Okay. Many centuries later the Ghiscari language is absolutely gone. But you think about we have many many languages that are now dead languages. Absolutely.

[00:22:35] Latin, Sumerian, many many others so it's just another example of that George taking directly from history and adapting it into his world again. Love it. So as they expanded out east and west surrounded many of the free cities like Valanta. Some of them

[00:22:51] like Pentos I believe were there already but they submitted to the Valerians. Not so much as they let them come in and rule them they more says here have some money go away. It's like a protection racket really. We'll just keep giving you this money

[00:23:07] if you just keep leaving us to our business. My favourite story of the founding of the free cities of Essos is the Privose. Braavos was founded by Valerians or by merchants or anything else it was a bunch of escaped slaves. I forget the story of how

[00:23:25] they escaped but they managed to break free from their slavers and they moved further and further north until eventually they found this bit of land where they built their secret city and Braavos was known as the secret city for many many years even after it was no longer

[00:23:43] a secret. But like them many others also fled to get away from the Valerian realm which brings us to the next group of people and our title the Andals. The Andals were from North East Essos in a place called Andalus. They worshiped

[00:24:03] the gods the seven that we know from Westeros and they believed that their gods had promised them kingdoms in a foreign land which I find really interesting because that is exactly what they got. Maybe they're really maybe they just made that up later

[00:24:21] people made that up later because it sounded good with absolutely embellishment on history. Exactly no one wants to hear about it if it was very straightforward and quite boring. Yes they had iron weapons and armor they were capable fighters but they didn't want

[00:24:37] to fight and let's face it these Valerians had dragons they didn't want to fight them and they had technology more advanced in their own because as we know the Valerians had very special steel so they were no match for them but they were very capable fighters River Rhoyne

[00:24:57] acted kind of as a buffer for them so the Valerians didn't spread out that far. One they had some stuff going on with the river and secondly while their dragons could fly over easily enough they couldn't really get armies across these rivers. Yes sure.

[00:25:15] So the Valerians kind of held back from making that journey so down the mouth of the river quite near Valeria still this is where they raised the city of Valantas and raising this city at the mouth of the river gave them the ability to cross

[00:25:31] the river in the thousands and when they eventually did the Andals had no choice but to retreat. They maybe had a little bit of help from the Rhoyne holding them back but for the most part they just took off Okay so do we know where they retreated

[00:25:47] too? So yes they started heading north and west taking similar routes to those Bravossi slaves but they didn't get quite as far north as Bravoss. They got as far east as they could they could go and then they started building and they took off on

[00:26:03] their ships eventually and landed in Westeros in what we know as the Vale. Ah okay So first of all as I said they had iron weapons and armour. The first men were still in the Bronze Age so they were no match for them

[00:26:19] just like the Andals were no match for the Valerians because as we know shit rolls downhill So Right so again there was a whole thing with the werewood trees the Andals come in and start chopping down their werewood trees and the children of the forest

[00:26:39] are like no but this time the first men are on their sides so many battles ensue over this This is so unfair for the children of the forest they've chased back the white walkers they're just trying to look after their trees and these guys just keep coming

[00:26:57] They do More and more people just keep coming over taking their lands, taking their trees treating them like firewood when they're sacred So the children of the forest were driven further and further Are the Andals the first descendants of the Vale and the Arans? No some of the

[00:27:15] some of the men of the Vale claimed to be of the first men I think House Royce if you remember the dude that led the Adan armies and with Sansa he was the one that was taking the young Robin Adan out with the Falcon

[00:27:31] I think he had one of the earlier seasons as well flashing back, early seasons are very vague now so they're very very weird but oh god that kid so weird the Royces claim to be of the first men but we know that Arans themselves

[00:27:51] were descendants of the Andals because it was an Andal I can't remember his name now Sir, what's it of? Of Aran There we go, that's his name That guy came along and he took the seat of Aran for himself and then they expanded out further into Westeros and

[00:28:13] building big stone castles as they go and eventually So there was a place for them they weren't completely eradicated they just had to move The children of the forest moved and a lot of the first men retreated into the north as well but eventually they intermingled

[00:28:31] and the Andals decided that conquer wasn't the way forward they wanted to coexist At one point they were trying to force the seven onto the first men but it wasn't getting them anywhere it was better just let you have your gods

[00:28:45] we'll have our gods and we'll all just live together but the north the north resisted for hundreds of years the north was having none of this which is why the north there's very strong strong ties to the old gods So that brings us to the end

[00:29:01] of the second migration What's next? That would be the Rhoynar and they were the last migration into Westeros And on that note I think we should take a short break We'll be right back So where did they come from? So the river Rhoyne

[00:29:25] it ran right through north to south in Essos and the people of the Rhoynar lived along the banks there were a few cities up and down the banks to the river They were a rich culture they were art and music and luxury and pretty clothes and dancing

[00:29:43] and all the things that we enjoyed and cultureally advanced civilization Definitely, definitely Thanks to the bounty that the river brought them they had great crops and therefore could afford lavish luxuries And if they have a belief system or anything that related to the water

[00:29:59] gods or anything or magic Yeah absolutely, they believed the river itself was their main god Absolutely, it's giving them life isn't it? Exactly, yeah so the river was their main god and they had many, many lesser gods like the elements and things like that

[00:30:17] So they were the first to make iron They had a hierarchy system that was ruled by princes and princesses not kings and queens but princes and princesses was the top tier of ruling, they were peaceful people but they were formidable fighters Yes, they had water magic

[00:30:39] so they could make giant whirlpools in the water great towers coming out of the water that erupted like volcanoes So a very successful element to use against fire then? Yes, definitely The first one of the Neladians arrived they welcomed them They said yeah come in, share our bounty

[00:31:01] share in our land, prosper here and the Valyrians started creating outposts and then outposts turned into cities so massively encroached on the Rhoynar Yes, and they started getting a little bit nervous at having them around so one of those cities was Vlantus The B at the south

[00:31:21] of the Rhoyn was fed by four rivers so the river had four mouths feeding into this bay each of these mouths to the river was one of the four cities Vlantus being the Valyrian city of the area Over the centuries that they all existed there together

[00:31:39] there was many many wars between them, the ones that stood out to me were the turtle wars There was he just laughed at just hearing turtle wars It just sounds funny doesn't it So there was three turtle wars the first of which and probably the second

[00:31:55] and third started in a similar way So we're not talking little like stabbing turtles here No, no, no we're talking giant turtles that lived in the bay that the Rhoynar believed were sacred I've just got a little disc world moment I'm just imagining These guys were huge

[00:32:15] but they were sacred to the Rhoynar One day the Valyrians netted and killed one of their giant turtles that I think were one of those lesser gods that I was talking about Yeah, so big no no Big no no massive war, we've had to cause three massive wars

[00:32:33] at the end of one of them the Valyrians decided to bring in some dragons they called in for some backup and they brought in three dragons and three dragons was enough to raise the city The city was ash it was gone, the earth the city was no more

[00:32:53] So it's like putting a volcano out with a bucket of water basically I like that Yeah definitely So the two cities that were remaining they decided to burn together against them, they had some meetings in which the leader of one city Prince Garen

[00:33:09] who wanted to go and fight them the leader of the other city princess Nymeria said no that she thought it was a fight that they couldn't win Garen's balls to the wall and Nymeria's like, look guys this is futile Yes absolutely volcano bucket of water situation

[00:33:27] Let's think about this I mean look what they did to that one city next door Princess Nymeria is actually one of my favourite characters in Westerosy history she was Arya Stark Yes that's the one Arya's direwolf was named after Princess Nymeria because Nymeria was Arya's hero

[00:33:47] and Arya's my hero and that was long before she came along and started being an assassin and everything, I just knew this kid was destined for business from book 1 from book 1 I was like, I love this kid she is awesome, from the moment she shot that first arrow

[00:34:03] when her brothers were missing left right inside her I thought I would have loved this girl Nymeria was her hero and this is the story why so Garen went off to war despite Nymeria's caution against it a lot of her people wanted to fight with him

[00:34:19] So where she left at just like the women children the old, the non fighters all stayed in time while these other men and women women that could fight went off to war at first they were doing great they were absolutely kicking ass along the way

[00:34:37] but in true Baladian style they called for backup and this time they brought more dragons this time they brought a lot more dragons the number is rumoured to be around 300 Oh yes infinitely large number it is but that number might have been exaggerated slightly but as history does

[00:35:01] we keep coming back to this even if it was a third of that there's 100 dragons and 3 wiped out a whole city on their own we've seen the damage a dragon can do in Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon as well and some other bad dragon movies

[00:35:17] that we won't mention so me and Emma we were going to cover the what was that movie called Damsel we were going to cover the movie Damsel our practice run doing this but when we went to do it we discovered that while the movie was visually energy

[00:35:39] it had no story I might eat your own, loved it I loved watching it but when I went back to try and comment on it I was like where's the story it wasn't the best dragon movie however the dragon was fantastic

[00:35:55] the dragon was the best thing in the movie the dragon was absolutely brilliant the dragon fire was like lava visually it was very very entertaining her voice, the way she moved it was all great and let's not forget Millie Bobby Brown played a fantastic lead role

[00:36:13] in the movie I mean it really was her in the dragon yes I mean they had absolutely fantastic act like Bray Winston and Angela Bassett playing minor roles they were in it for like five minutes each we knew from the opening credits when there was like six names

[00:36:31] oh that's sparms so yes but that dragon while it was nowhere near as big as the Westerosi Dragon was also formidable dragons are destructive so Nymedia when she heard that Garen had been defeated captured he was forced to watch all his people enslaved and tortured while he walked

[00:36:57] did she suffer the same fate or did she no she decided that she was going to take off so she got all her people and loaded them into what history knows as the 10,000 ships and they sailed off with no destination in mind

[00:37:13] just let's get the hell out of it so I think she made the right move there so where did she end up does it say well she's going to end up in Westeros but she made a few stops along the way they stopped for a while at the

[00:37:27] the Basilisk Isles but there was sickness they were attacked then they'd move on and then go somewhere else and there would be a shortage of food then they'd go somewhere else and there would be sickness this went on for years and then the sickness became too much

[00:37:45] they'd move on and anyway they landed in Dorn when they arrived at Dorn at this point Dorn was a poor big school of lesser lords one of the main lords at the time there was Mars Martel and iMedia married Mars and two upon themselves to conquer Dorn

[00:38:05] many of the other Dornish lords that were around at the time also married Rhoynish, Rhoynar women, I believe that one opened the interpretation so essentially they're people prevailed in the end definitely but more than that the Dornish adopt many of the Rhoynar customs

[00:38:23] including the ones where women could succeed lovely and in fact when Nymedia eventually passed on her daughter was the one that succeeded her she had sons but her eldest daughter being the eldest was the one that succeeded her that takes us into

[00:38:41] some of the Dornish customs that still exist today in which their leader is a prince or a princess that women can rule and this is why you will hear lines in House of the Dragon or Game of Thrones when they're referring to women ruling

[00:38:57] and someone will come out and go this isn't Dorn you know and this is why we will get this because those Rhoynar customs still exist today which brings us back to Westeros during this time there were many battles and eventually it comes to the place of

[00:39:21] the seven kingdoms that we know so we're moving up the timeline we certainly are so the seven kingdoms as we know exist but two of those houses are not the ones that we know but we will get to that but meanwhile back in Valerian the Valerians have

[00:39:37] spread out across the Essos they had moved as far as a little island off the coast of Black Warby called Dragonstone oh we know this one we know this one now we're talking 200 years before the conquest the Valerians had already claimed Dragonstone as their western most outpost

[00:39:55] during this time the Valerian steel that we know started to trickle into Westeros everyone wanted to get their hands on a bit and there were 227 known pieces of Valerian steel in Westeros at this point in our house Targaryen we have Ena Targaryen and his daughter

[00:40:15] who was known as Dainys the Dreamer she had let's say predictive powers she had dreams that predicted the future and she first saw the destruction of Valeria the Doom as it is later known and this was 12 years before it happened so what she believed were people confident

[00:40:37] in her stout staying abilities her family were so Ena moved his entire family his household their slaves and their dragons all to Westeros well to Dragonstone at least they never really paid much attention to the mainland they ruled the Narrow Sea they had an alliance

[00:40:57] going with the Valerians the ship people yes the Valerians and there was another family they were the Celticars they were a strong shipping family as well they were both Valerian families and they ruled the sea on ship while the Targaryens ruled the skies above as their back up

[00:41:17] there were five dragons that came to Dragonstone Dragonstone with Ena and his family by the time the conquest had come along only one of those five dragons still left and that was the infamous Valerian the Black Dread we love that he's the best and the biggest and baddest

[00:41:39] so their family had moved because of Denny's dreams and no one else was believing her dreams did they keep that to themselves I think they kept it to themselves and they were considered cowards as far as the Targaryens believed that they were all powerful I'm going to assume

[00:41:59] they just have this confidence of being all powerful because they had all these dragons the Valerian and they saw the Targaryen move as an act of cowardice they thought they were running away from the Polite the battles and the power struggles

[00:42:17] that were all going on amongst their people for reasons of weakness as opposed to seeing something coming that you guys don't and so off they went they settled down for 12 years and then Doom go boom Doom go boom so the Doom it was the 14 great volcanoes that were

[00:42:43] in Valeria which the maesters believe like the source of their power there was magics involved in the way that they tamed the volcanoes and they maybe think that part of the reason that they all exploded was that because of all the power struggles and stuff the priests

[00:43:01] that were supposed to be maintaining the spells that kept the Doom in check well not the Doom, the volcano was in check that maybe the spells weren't properly maintained due to this one getting killed or that one getting killed and eventually this cataclysm just

[00:43:17] happened. Not a natural disaster there's always got to be magics at the back of it absolutely the gods were not favouring you absolutely it was the gods it was magic it was the people just it was anything but the science exactly it wasn't just a natural disaster

[00:43:35] somebody has to be to blame so after this happened when it happened in fact they say that every hill for 500 miles exploded with soot and fire into the sky to the point that dragons were burned up in the skies above them

[00:43:57] and just fell out the sky riders and all those Targaryens must have been sitting on dragons doing like at all tubes so anyway the people rose up against the few remaining dragon lords that were outside of Elyria and just took them out they killed the dragons as well

[00:44:17] don't know how, I mean there must be mobs to be able to take on a dragon absolutely but yeah the remaining dragon lords and their dragons were all killed and there was one dragon lord who decided that he was going back into Elyria to reclaim it

[00:44:33] he took off with his ships following flew off with his dragon and was never heard from again I mean what did they think he was going to reclaim a pile of ash a hole in the ground, that's a wally I mean we saw that

[00:44:47] little bit in Game of Thrones with Tyrion and Jorah on the little boat going through what was left of Elyria didn't look like much to claim to me anyway so where were we, so the noble Elyrians then decided to rise up and take over

[00:45:03] the ones that were left, not dragon riders just nobles and they started trying to take cities like Volantis there was many more wars that went on for quite some time so we eventually reached the time of a very young Aegon Targaryen

[00:45:19] he is a little bit conflicted at this point because the Volarians are trying to pull him into the fight and at one point he actually gets involved in an alliance with Penteos and Tyros against the Volantis so he's now fighting for the other side

[00:45:37] so how do they say how young he is at this point is he and his early teens late teens as an adult when he tried to conquer west he successfully conquered west he was 27 then so younger than 27 so he's around, Visenya's around Rhaens is probably just a younger

[00:45:59] absolutely younger sister so he went to this meeting with Etoche and Tyroshie from which he flew to Leith on the back of Beleri on the back dredd and took out of the Volantene fleet Aegon, bit of fire, boom, ship's gone but then I think he just got

[00:46:15] bored. I think he was just like bored now, had enough of this can't be bothered with your drama why am I fighting for this power struggle when there is a land to the west ripe for the taking so he went back to Westeros

[00:46:29] and he started having a little table commissions that was a lovely map of the Westeros Islands I think we might have seen that but you know what, I would just love that I would totally quite happily sign him I'd turn off that table every night

[00:46:45] the cats would be all over that they would scratch it wouldn't they so that brings us right up to the conquest we have finally reached the Targaryen rule awesome so we're not going to go on too much over the conquest, where we had

[00:46:59] great ideas about what we were going to talk about then we heard the news that I can't get the words out Emma help me with my words help me with my words the conquest is going to be another spin-off that is the news that we heard

[00:47:17] I love that neither one of us could think of the word spin-off it was a god from all recollection but yeah guys we're not going to spoiler that for you in case that's something that you haven't researched you don't know anything about however we will do

[00:47:35] spoiler sections within the show at the end we'll give you a warning don't worry, we'll give you plenty of time to switch off definitely, what we will say is the highlights the parts that just come up in conversation in your normal dialogue in Westeros for example

[00:47:51] one of the key points of the conquest of Aegon was the destruction of Harrenhal right we all know that Balerion the Black Dread melted those towers like candles another thing that I would really be looking forward to seeing within the conquest is the great battle

[00:48:07] known as the field of fire however much though Westeros they wanted to end up to them they were never going to be any match for the dragons just like the Rhoynar weren't either and I wonder at this point when these Targanians have come in

[00:48:23] how many of these Andals and Rhoynar had passed down stories from their old lands about the Valerians and the reason that they all migrated in the first place yet it never seems to come up and I just found that so fascinating in my research of this history

[00:48:41] that we discovered the reason the Andals ended up in Westeros was because of the Valerians the reason the Rhoynar ended up there was because of the Valerians and yet when these Valerians come in they've been like hey I've met these sea words before I'd like some

[00:48:57] refresh trauma there I can't talk about it it's too far and I'm sure it was we're talking generations later but the stories tend to get passed down and yet they've never mentioned I think they might have missed a trick there

[00:49:13] well you never know when they do the spin-off exactly when they do that spin-off it could still happen and we've also got the Duncan egg spin-off coming up which I am absolutely looking forward to many years ago when I ran out of Game of Thrones books to read

[00:49:27] well when Fiona and I discussed this book I was like I've never read that we were having a look at my bookcase which I had just recently cleared out Fiona was like you have that book it's like it's right there oh yeah it's that one that is

[00:49:43] well it's been bought by that I just haven't read it yet but it's there but I thoroughly recommend listening to Harry Lloyd do on audiobook he played the series in the first season of Game of Thrones God and Try he was absolutely amazing at narrating this book

[00:50:01] it's three books in one three short books in one they're like three hours a book I've read, I've not read Harry Lloyd read to me the first one and I was blown away by how talented a voiceover artist he is his accent work was phenomenal

[00:50:19] even when he went from one voice to the next not only did the accent change but the voice changed too when he was reading lines for a kid he sounded like a kid and when he was reading lines for an old man he sounded like an old man

[00:50:35] he is absolutely super talented and I'm so glad they chose him to narrate this book so check that out if you don't have the time to sit down and read it I'm certainly going to check it out, it's so much easier just don't kill Pritch you've never read

[00:50:49] it's a big thing no it's not a reading copy there's many of those in my house so you're not allowed to touch it don't touch it definitely truth is you just wanted to hear Harry Lloyd he's so good so where were we the thing that we're not sure

[00:51:09] if there's going to be in the spin-off or not is his sons and their reins how far they'll be going to take it see this is what I'm wondering they take it from just Aegondrain because let's face it, Aegondrain had 13 years of war at the beginning

[00:51:29] followed by 20 odd years of peace there's enough within Aegondrain that I think they'll just be kids yeah they think they will be but this is sorry I have to get this in there at this point he became Aegon the Conqueror Targaryen he's the first of his name

[00:51:47] King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Rhine and now we all know where all of those names came from I now understand that better than I ever did but what I will say is

[00:52:01] he was not Lord of the Seven Kingdoms he was Lord of the Six Kingdoms because Dorn were having none of it right? don't Dorn, got a time on them for a pager eh because you don't know Pag of the Scottish for fighting thanks for having me oh dear

[00:52:23] so yes we've got Aegondrain what is obvious that's not spoilish is that he married both his sisters he had his dragon Belerion the Black Dread he had the sword Blackfire his sister Visenya had the sword Dark Sister and she rode Vhagar she did

[00:52:45] and Vhagar is important to our story yes we will get to that later for those of you who have seen the first season of House of the Dragon you know what we mean but we know that during that time his younger sister dies

[00:52:59] we won't get into the how because I believe that will be she's my favourite of the two sisters she is isn't she why for you yes and like loves music but she's badass she's laid the globes for it but Visenya's a gosh she's a bit

[00:53:19] not that old Martyn however she was one of Arya Stark's absolute heroes yes yes she was she was strong she was powerful, she was a leader in her own right she wasn't just I think that's what Arya was drawn to she was drawn to powerful women

[00:53:35] who weren't under the thumb of their men she didn't want to be somebody's wife somebody's lady Rene's was also like that in a more free-spirited way she was she didn't carry out the lady in steel she was more of a lover than a fighter

[00:53:51] but she was not afraid to get on the back of that dragon and burn some shit up absolutely and it was her passion yes she loved to fly so these characters I cannot wait to see to see come alive I would not fare well as a Targaryen so

[00:54:09] I just came back from holiday yesterday and I don't fly well okay I would not fare well as a Targaryen do you not like being up there I'm okay when it's up there take off, land things on it needs to be on one level

[00:54:29] you know that way when you go up and you level out and then it turns to one side oh my god it's awful my ears always go funny on the plane as well that was that's not yeah my right ear still you know that underwater I'm still there

[00:54:49] so I would not fare well as a dragon lord I'd fall off so where were we Aegon had two sons the oldest was Aenys that was to his younger sister Aenys and the younger born to the Senya and he was known as Megor

[00:55:09] they had a lot of their mothers traits those boys didn't they there's some question over Aenys sort of pity yeah there was but it's quite a sickly boy wasn't it Aenys and a bit soft yeah so Aenys started the tradition of placing a dragon egg

[00:55:27] in the crib of the child and it wasn't until she did that that Aenys started to thrive as the dragon grew he grew too but as Megor was born right red screaming face wasn't it and he was charging about and although they were so different

[00:55:45] they all loved between the brothers yeah I think any sort of rivalry between them was probably put there by the Senya because she wanted her son up there being in charge and she realised we are talking about Megor the crew which we all have our reference to

[00:56:03] so yes he was one of the dark kings of Westeros after usurping his brother his brother Aenys was king for maybe five years sorry before I move on to Aenys I forgot to say a couple of things that Aegon's reign that stood out for me

[00:56:21] that I just thought were great to mention the Senya established the Kingsguard after her and Aegon were attacked in the streets of Kingsland in she told him that his guards were weak and slow and they held a great tourney um what are you going to do so funny

[00:56:41] you are too ferocious and weak yeah definitely so she said that his guards were weak and slow and they held this great tourney to find the seven knights for the seven kingdoms they didn't necessarily have to come from those kingdoms they were just using the number

[00:56:57] seven yeah well they didn't have to win it did they they just like no it was the seven that showed the greatest yeah the impressed the Senya the most basically yeah so and those became the Kingsguard and the tradition carried on throughout the centuries and

[00:57:13] also after building Kingsland down which grew up around them from the place that they landed when they first came to Westeros the first main camp he built what was known as the Aegon Fort in the beginning and because it was something

[00:57:27] that was just thrown up in a hurry it was never actually meant to be long term but it did last 30 odd years and they eventually had to tear down the Aegon Fort and the red keep was commissioned in 35 AC two years before his death

[00:57:41] well they started the building of the red keep but he never saw the end of it unfortunately Aegon's death was not glorious so in any way he was showing his grandsons Jiharis and Viserys the table at Dragonstone where he collapsed and what we would assume was a stroke

[00:57:59] and was dead a couple of days later so which they're very saddened to such a prolific war hero and on that note I think we should take a short break we'll be right back he dragged in his bed with his family around him and his son succeeded him

[00:58:22] and then he was usurped yes he was usurped by his brother the part I like about that is that with Aenys and Megor when Aenys banishes Megor just goes away and he doesn't come back and fight with his brother he just respects what his brother said to him

[00:58:40] and although he's an evil sack of shit he really is he did have such love for his brother and he could have overpowered him at any point this is what I love about the Targaryen's and it's the relations between the family because they're all bonkers aren't they

[00:58:54] they really are that's what insects will do for you very pretty but absolute lunge ah yeah well that's what I like to do I think it's a direct reflection of the Hapsburgs to be honest with you but anyway so where was I when Aenys came to power

[00:59:12] he handed Blackfyre to Megor he just handed over that sword that sword is a representation of being in charge and he just handed it over to his brother as a gift Megor had already claimed Balenion the Black Dread as his dragon and now he has the main sword

[00:59:32] is it any wonder that he felt like he should be in charge he was the better fighter he's got the big badass dragon he's got the badass Valenian steel sword and again he just says yeah okay I'm gonna fight brother yeah absolutely and then Aenys

[00:59:48] he played a dragon called Quicksilver which was a young dragon that had been placed in his crib as we'd already said and they grew up along with him and the exile that Emma was referring to there was regarding the time where Megor decided to take a second wife

[01:00:04] which was again all the rules both moral and logistic this guy makes Henry the 8th look like a good guy like if he makes Henry the 8th look a bit misguided oh it does honestly Henry, I was reading a book there about it's a historical fiction right but

[01:00:26] it also had a lot of historical facts in there too yeah it was written by Azoria and she's taking this story of Henry's 4th wife 5th wife Catherine Howard this is the point in Henry's life where he is on his second hand he is absolutely bonkers

[01:00:46] his 4th wife Anna Cleaves has come along and he just did not like her she didn't like him either there was no chemistry between them Catherine was one of her ladies she's just a young 15 year old girl and this creepy old fat Henry

[01:01:02] and it's just like oh I wonder how do we make this happen and it's just that's Megor so like that he had what, sex wives murdered a couple of them chop people's heads off yeah for still reasons as well so it was like

[01:01:22] killed the wives killed the maids yeah, had to kill the midwives one of his children was apparently born deformed and he killed the midwives or blamed the midwives at least I can't remember he actually killed her but yeah it was like come on

[01:01:36] this is not the midwives fault me but the way that babe was described as like being blackened and winged and all that I'm like I wonder if there wasn't some source that he'd gone on there anyway so I'm wondering about Aimees in his on his seat of power

[01:01:54] with a wee baby dragon and no valerian seal and there's his brother with the big badass dragon and the big badass valerian seal and his mother with the badass dragon and the badass valerian seal and maybe felt like their line of the family deserved it more

[01:02:10] Aimees married Lyssa Valerian and they had five children the oldest daughter Reina flew on the dragon Dreamfire Dreamfire will come to play in House of the Dragon I believe the younger son Aegon rode Quicksilver after his father's death the young Visenys, the middle child died age 15

[01:02:34] I'm pretty sure he died at the hand of Magor Yes, that's how I was debating whether this was a spoiler or not See he died at the hand of Magor indeed in a bid to coax out his mother, Alyssa with the two younger children

[01:02:48] who had gone into hiding Sounds like a shite play as if you would He killed one of my sons so I think I'll just come out with the next of my kids and they're saying It's a trap and Alyssa Valerian is like dumb definitely and so

[01:03:10] the problem with Aimees reign was that he was oblivious to what was going on around him the people did not respect him the way they respected his father No, I mean he wasn't a warlord he wasn't a tactician he was just a

[01:03:26] he was quite a weak guy really So he chose to let his older two siblings Reina and Aegon Marry in 41 AC and was immediately denounced by the Sept The High Septin wrote to him titled Dear King Abomination There were many attempts on his life in the castle etc

[01:03:54] so he fled to Dragonstone followed the Sept into their outrage and they started to turn against him so he flew to Dragonstone with his family and people were urging him to fight back but before he could muster any armies together I mean he's acting the same

[01:04:14] he was sitting there telling him come on you're dragging and just go burn up some shit he was indecisive and he took ill with symptoms that to be honest with me yes he had loose bowels and cramping stomach I think it sounds good, dear old Aunt Visenya

[01:04:34] that's what I was getting for that could be if it was natural I'm going with IBS but I'm thinking it was not natural I think once he got ill it was his Aunt Visenya that nursed him and he was getting better for the time

[01:04:46] nursing him is rat poison possibly or one of the many poisons that we've heard the maesters describe he was one of some of them sound awful I've heard some talk of her like some sort of sorcery as well with Visenya yeah there was people believe

[01:05:02] but nobody said any of this until after she was dead no I'm still at the bottom everybody just took it at fates value that the king had died of natural causes until after she was dead and then of course maybe she had something to do with it

[01:05:16] he was feeling a little bit better but when he heard the news that his daughter and son were surrounded by armies he collapsed with the news and was dead a few days later his Aunt Visenya immediately jumped on her dragon blew two pentoffs

[01:05:32] to have a wee word with her son and bring him back which he flew back on Belerion to Dragonstone had a quick coronation and then went about saying I'm the king well a couple of people tried it didn't get them very far the first person to speak up

[01:05:52] I think was a maester or a secton one of the two and he quickly lost his head it was with one swing of blackfire the man was no longer at all very heavy the wing awesome with our heads you know definitely so he had many fights

[01:06:08] in the faith militant the faith militant were not impressed with the way he usurped the throne they weren't too impressed with the incestuous Gareon newlyweds either but at the same time they were against this guy he was a bad man everybody knew

[01:06:26] he was a bad man and he had no right to that throne we saw him fight the faith militant who we seen in the game of thrones in those later seasons running about making Cersei's life hell those guys were hilarious they were so... so ridiculous

[01:06:44] and then we were carvings in the forehead like no one is going to carve nothing in the forehead it's just not happening so he like we already said had several wives a couple of them died horrifically after Aenys death there was of course a battle

[01:07:02] with the young king the young would-be king Aegon Aegon the uncrowned as he is known Aegon died in this battle and his dragon quicksilver did too bye bye dragon I am very sad about that one it's unclear as to how he died

[01:07:20] it just said he died in the battle it doesn't say whether Meg or killed him or not but we know that both dragon and rider were killed I find that when you think about this young quicksilver who is as old as I think Aenys was 35 when he died

[01:07:40] really quite a young young boy young dragon where if you've got Blenion here who is at least 170 at this point at least and that's assuming he was a baby when the Targaryens first came to Dragonstone all we know is that he came from Valyria

[01:08:00] and he was the only living one that came from Valyria the others were hatched on Dragonstone Vygar and Meraxes we never mentioned Rhaenys is dragon being called Meraxes Meraxes also died along with Rhaenys Rhaenys that's it there's so many Rhaenas and Rhaenys

[01:08:22] as soon as we bring in another Rhaena that's when I'm starting to get confused it's going to get even more confusing folks for those of you who have seen House of the Dragon you know what I'm talking about we've got Rhaeniras and another Rhaenys

[01:08:34] and a Rhaena and it's all very confusing but the good stuff about Megor the Cruella's reign is that he finished the Red Keep he also built loads of secret tunnels into the Reds Peak that is really cool I don't remember whether this is the book

[01:08:52] or the TV show because sometimes I get the two so confused but when Tyrion escapes the cells and goes and kills his dad he uses those secret tunnels to get there and I think it's the book I don't know if he did it in the TV show

[01:09:08] I don't recall it from the TV show I don't I but I feel like I would have remembered the secret tunnels and stuff I think this was very much in the books and it was very much dragged out for a whole chapter while he's making his way

[01:09:24] through these tunnels so this is why I feel like but yeah those are the very same tunnels that Tyrion used to get to his father's room I think what we see is him getting out of his cell and then turning up at his father's room

[01:09:36] I think that's the way he played out the TV shows well for those of you that don't know he used the secret tunnels to get there so he also commissioned the dragon pit so he decided that the dragons needed somewhere to go

[01:09:50] but he used prisoners from the cells because people didn't want to work on the dragon pit because you know dragons, scary so they decided that he would use prisoners from the black cells to build this you know a little bit of slave labour

[01:10:06] just to take it to whole new levels he's just awful absolutely, but you know like in true Vivaldian style, you know being a slave master but anyway I think the hardest part for Mager's rule for him would be when his mother died although he still kind of

[01:10:24] seemed to take that in his stride as well obviously we actually obviously felt something but he never really missed a step because of that I mean he was a loon yeah, of course after a time he was just chopping off too many heads

[01:10:44] and stuff like that and the people just rose up against him the younger of Aenees's sons jihadis started raising an army against him Mager was like what's going on here let's say you know nobody turns up a couple of these Kingsguard

[01:11:02] would you go with that me and he's like chopping heads or left-bounds out, say something that doesn't like exactly, so a couple of these Kingsguard defected Reina who he had taken for one of his wives stole Blackfly or the sword jumps on her dragon dreamfire

[01:11:18] and it takes off to go and join her brother and later on the same day where the next morning Mager was found dead on the Iron Throne with cuts cuts to his wrists yeah, so it's unclear whether he nobody knows whether he was murdered

[01:11:36] or whether he committed suicide either wouldn't surprise me I think both are viable yeah definitely because he was completely mad yeah, he's every chance he'd lost it yes definitely I think if they were to do a conquest spin-off that this is where they should finish it

[01:11:54] you could do the early years and some sort of time jump and then do the Mager, those years and building up that tension because Jaharis Reign is a long period of peace so I feel like if they were going to do a conquest

[01:12:10] spin-off, Mager would be a good place to take it to but the Jaharis peace though there's a lot of politics a lot of campaigns yeah definitely it's a different spin-off though it's a different vibe I can't see them ever doing that Reign, I think the closest

[01:12:28] we're ever getting to that Reign is the 3 minutes in the beginning of the Reign where are they, you know, we get to see Jaharis sitting there, the big great council meeting but we're jumping ahead we'll get to that Jaharis and Al-San, the two younger children were married

[01:12:44] but they were married in secret Mother Alyssa had tried to marry Al-San and Al-San says no no no no, I'm marrying my brother, this is what we always thought was happening but rather than kick off about it to our mum, she just went straight to her brother

[01:13:02] who was king at this point and says they're going to marry me off to someone else and he went, no no no no so off they went and they had a secret wedding they didn't consummate the wedding they did not, no

[01:13:14] they think it was at least two years before that happened so they had their secret wedding and the hand of the king who was whoever was hand at the time and their mother was trying so hard to find ways to

[01:13:26] get in the way of it but it just it wasn't happening there was something like really pretty girls over there to try and turn his head and I think, I mean Al-San, I keep forgetting her name Al-San, main fear was because of what happened to the two older

[01:13:42] children, they had been persecuted by the people for the incestuous marriage who, she was just scared that this was going to happen again and I don't blame her absolutely don't blame her but, and Jihari's had it right they kept this marriage a secret and Jihari's was like

[01:14:02] I'm going to prove that I am right for this job first in which he did he took that throne at 14 years old and he was a true king and he showed it from an early age he didn't just let the adults boss him around

[01:14:18] he had his own opinions and he was not afraid to voice them and he would on occasion overwrite their decisions his mother was regent for the first two years when he came to power at age 16 and by then he was already proven his worth

[01:14:36] and this is where it gets interesting and this is where it gets us into House of the Dragon territory so Jihari's and Alessan had 13 children not all of them survived to adulthood and some of them died as young adults as well but here it becomes interesting

[01:14:56] to our story the story is all about succession that was raised many times through Jihari's reign mostly towards the end of the reign and although Jihari's is a he's an amazing king, he's a great ruler but his queen Alessan is also a great ruler absolutely she was

[01:15:18] absolutely brown, I've got some notes here on Alessan in her times queen she formed the council of women I love this everywhere she went everywhere she travelled round the kingdom she would get the women off the area together to have a big meeting about their grievances

[01:15:36] and they went on massives and it wasn't like in the days of Aegon and they would go round and be wind and dined and stay for too long and reigned the resources of where they were they stayed for shorter periods of time they gained the favour

[01:15:52] of the whole country and they did stuff for them as well and it wasn't just in places where you had all these nobles and things they went to other places they went to the wall and she stayed at the wall for about some time

[01:16:08] and I know you love the women's council stories from there yes, so then she gets to the north north and the wall and not after having a new castle commission to fortify the existence of the wall etc

[01:16:24] she decides that she wants to have her council of women up there but there's no women up there there's no noble women up there so she just stuffs into Mollstown as a council of women with all the horrors barcammer and stuff like that

[01:16:40] and just gets all their grievances but that was the thing she didn't just hear the grievances she did her best to try and fix them as well they were both very fair and very strong yes, they were absolutely she had these big achievements of his

[01:16:56] being was that he commissioned the King's Road he restored peace with the faith after all the turmoil of what had happened in his father's reign and Magor and he finished the dragon pit he did Jairus and Alessane weren't without their argument he weren't at all

[01:17:18] most of it was a happy marriage they were in love, they absolutely adored each other but they had a couple of big fights I'm trying to remember which one is which I think it was the second

[01:17:32] the second great quarrel is the one that is relevant to our story the second great quarrel was in 92 AC and it was regarding succession their oldest son, Aman who was married to Jocelyn Baratheon they had a daughter Aenys who we know from the show Aman died

[01:17:54] he was killed by a pirate I think during one of the many small skirmishers these guys just sneaked up on their camp and just shot him it wasn't in battle there were just a couple of scouts they had one and a half and a half lucky shot

[01:18:12] and he was taken out and this is when the first question of succession was raised I remember what the other fight was about, we'll get back to that so the question of succession was raised this was the first fight I've got to insist the right way around now

[01:18:30] it's coming back to me, this was the first fight and it was decided that Rhaenys would not rule because she was a woman it would pass to the next in line of Jarris and Alessand's children which would be Baelon Baelon was married to his sister

[01:18:46] Alyssa, he rode the dragon Vhagar, it was cool Aman had ridden Caraxes he was married to his sister Alyssa who was out on the road, Mellys who is Rhaenys's dragon, but anyway this is the first great quarrel between Jarris and Alessand when Jarris decided

[01:19:04] that the crown could not pass to his granddaughter and would instead go to his next youngest son Alessand says well if you think women have no use in ruling then you won't be needing me anymore and she jumps on her dragon and she fucks off the dragon stone

[01:19:22] and she stayed there for like a year and then absolutely off with them and she was absolutely few men and so that is the epitome of silent treatment oh by the time you're like I'm not just going to the next room I'll be island for a year

[01:19:42] eventually she calmed down and they sorted their stuff out they had another fight which was a few years later it was after one of her younger daughters I'm not sure if it was her actual youngest daughter no I think her youngest daughter was Dela who was

[01:20:00] Emma Pannon's mother but one of her younger daughters Viserra had died the daughter Serra had been living abroad in Essos and had been hanging out in some disreputable company let's say and she wanted her daughter home and she visited her daughter at first and she begged

[01:20:22] Jaharis to let her bring her home and Jaharis called her a life senior whore and would talk no more of it so she fell out with them again quite right and she stormed off all back to dragon stone she went

[01:20:34] they did make it up but then she died not long after they made it up maybe a year or two those fights were so famous they were known as the first and second quarrel or the first what was called the first great right and then

[01:20:48] when the second quarrel came along they became known as the first quarrel so that brings us to where House of the Dragons starts I suppose the younger son Bailon dies unexpectedly again with something sounding kind of stomachy did I actually write down how he died

[01:21:06] I did not write down how he died I'm sure it was some sort of illness you know what it sounds like actually now that I think about it it sounds like he's appendix burst right yeah yeah actually yeah I think that yeah

[01:21:18] yeah it's ringing bells I thought it sounded something that was described the kind of pain that he was in and how sudden it was and things I think is appendix burst he was the father of a series and Damon who we know from House of the Dragon

[01:21:34] for those of us who have seen it so that brings us up to our point where we have met up with the show so this is the Great Council of 101 AC the most significant event in the Isterosi history actually you know where thousands of lords all gathered

[01:21:52] in the one place to decide the succession and the show picks up pretty much from that scene if I remember rightly it's a sort of recap of what happened at that point wasn't it I'm not going to lie because I watched it when it first aired

[01:22:04] yeah you know I don't feel any remember so I'm absolutely going to enjoy re-watching it I went back and checked and yeah that is literally where it picks up with a voiceover from Renita sort of explaining the events and we see all the lords gathered in Haddon Hall

[01:22:20] and odd Haddon Hall looks amazing in that scene but we'll save that conversation for when we're actually watching the episode loads to talk about there and that seems like a really good place to take a short break actually so we'll be right back

[01:22:50] something we haven't talked a lot about is the dragons oh I know yes let's do that because these things are amazing great beasts they're just awesome and it's amazing that Egg on the Conqueror and his sisters they just came on the three and then

[01:23:08] when it gets to Jaehaerys we just have this explosion of dragons and it seems like the Targaryens are building their empire up and building their dragons up and it could be like old Valyria reborn yes absolutely could I think I read it somewhere that

[01:23:24] in the time of Jaehaerys they had ten full grown dragons unfortunately during that time we also lost a couple as well but by the time we get to Warehouse of the Dragons starts and the children that are born throughout the first season and they all get a dragon

[01:23:38] if I remember it right there's also two or three wild dragons as well that they don't have riders so they're just like they're there one of them is called the Cannibal Sheep Stealer and I think there's one other I mean what a time to be alive in western

[01:23:56] dragons Pinching your sheep he just like picture the little farmer guy just doing his thing now there's nowhere shadows on the appears I suppose we saw a similar scene to that in Game of Thrones remember it was a little boy on the cliffside and the dragon came along

[01:24:18] or was it a dragon or was it one of the others I can't remember exactly but I do remember the scene where the old man brought the bones of the badly burnt child that was so sad these dragons are a forced

[01:24:32] they do what they're told to a certain extent but the human minds of their own their style is that they like to char their food before they eat it wow that's wild I mean they're used in ceremonial senses as well for burial well not burial as such

[01:24:50] but you know like for lighten the pyres what else they were used to force the iron throne the dragon breath with all the swords and the swords of Aegon's enemies I love the way that George describes them in the book as well in all the different colours

[01:25:06] and describing their eyes as like molten bronze just you picture that and you might think that's fair because it was called the bronze fury that was right so yeah but that's another thing as well he's not just like went for a couple of your standard dragon

[01:25:28] each one is so different even the eggs they all got their own little patterns and colours and things like that it's really cool it's really cool the dragons are amazing and you think about how many of them so at this point we've got Vermithor and Silverwing

[01:25:48] we're Jiharis and Alice Sands we've got Caraxes who was Aemon Targaryen we have Bad Vhagar Yes, definitely Mellies was Alyssa Balon's wife and then you've got obviously the younger ones so you've got Lainor, Bilarion Seasmok and Reneed off with Cyrax so they're all there right from the beginning

[01:26:14] and these are badass beasts but there's so many more to come when they all start having jokes I mean, dragonfights in the sky Oh my That was the one thing you know I said that the long night was like my favourite episode but that dragonfight

[01:26:28] was hard to watch because it was so dark that made it quite difficult if you go back and watch it again though and then you get all up Yeah, the dragonfight in the sky from that was one thing but this is you know, this is lots of dragons

[01:26:46] it's gonna be epic I can't wait to see how this dance unfolds it's gonna be awesome sorry I'm being really cheesy now talking like I'm trying to sell it I don't need to sell House of the Dragon I need to sell ours I need to sell ours No!

[01:27:06] Right, so let's talk a little bit about the Unreal Hour and what our plans are going forward Post House of the Dragon we're also gonna do a little spoiler section at the end, we'll give you all a chance to those of you that don't want to

[01:27:20] be spoiled on the books so we can talk about some of the good points in the books that we skipped over but we really want to talk about anyway So we'll give you some wee heads up when we're gonna call it for the end of the official show

[01:27:34] and if you want to stick around for the spoiler section that's fine, we'll be talking about what we're most looking forward to seeing again for the re-walk, for those of you that have already seen it, you're welcome to join the conversation

[01:27:46] The rest of yous are welcome as well I mean some people just don't care about spoilers My past side was always really good for that You could just watch something without her and then go on the phone and go and this happened and that happened

[01:27:58] and she's like, honestly that's great I mean, she's got spoilers and she's still going to watch it No, I'm not a fan of spoilers I'm not a fan of spoilers, I like to I love to feel the drama in the moment and not have it You know that

[01:28:12] So, the unreal hour we've got a few more shows that we've got in mind that we want to cover some of them are current, some of them are older but so let's start with you Emma, what are you most looking forward to covering this feature?

[01:28:26] There are two that I am absolutely dying to cover It brings a power I have already seen the first season Of course, I've seen it as well Yes, absolutely dying to talk about it in depth The other one is Wheel of Time Wow, it's so good

[01:28:46] Well, I've seen the first few episodes of it and I was actually blown away I was like, okay I can really get on board with this The books are fantastic In the spirit of watching the first episode I went away and ordered the audiobook

[01:28:58] The first book as well It's going to be done I just can't wait The first time we see Big Magic Spells in that first episode I was just like, yes, I love the Big Magic Yes, yes Actually shouting at the TV like some lunatic Totally present

[01:29:18] So yeah, I am fully on board for Wheel of Time, I can't wait for that What are you looking forward to? Well, of course You know, the Big Westerosi fan I'm really, really, really excited about what we're doing first which is House of the Dragon

[01:29:34] I'm looking forward to the Dunkin' Eggs spin-off when that comes out Definitely I will read the book that is in my book Yes, I think not No, listen to Harry Lloyd He's brilliant Keep the book nice But do you know like, Steenin' Away from Westeros

[01:29:54] One of the ones I'm really looking forward to covering that we discussed and you haven't seen it yet actually, but you're going to love it is Silo Absolutely love that I've just started listening to the book as well So Apple TV Silo, I love it

[01:30:10] It's a dystopian, futuristic post-apocalypse thing Absolutely love that, these people are all living underground Season 1 is called It was a great cliffhanger I'm so psyched for Season 2 which please comment out maybe the beginning of next year but we'll get there, we'll get Season 1

[01:30:28] done before we get round to that Another one that we've both seen it I know what she's going to say So good In the spirit of the post-apocalyptic world See Definitely, Jason Momoa I stand with battle loss I also stand with battle loss We must do that Absolutely

[01:30:50] And maybe some real bad singing also Maybe For those of you that stick around on this journey with us we might even get a wee exclusive episode somewhere where we're finally convinced Emma, I watched the last four episodes of Buffy Yeah, I know that

[01:31:06] So that's something that has to be done As someone that had them Buffy had always been sort of there I'd never really watched it and then thought Do you know what, I'm going to give Buffy a go This was, oh wow 10 years ago at least

[01:31:22] Loved it, absolutely loved it I couldn't bring myself to watch the last four episodes You're not going to be over I just couldn't face that being over But I didn't watch it and then Netflix removed it So it will happen one day

[01:31:42] and Buffy will be over for me I don't know when you'll be glad to know that Disney have them all They are all there and I own them all on Amazon Just in case Disney removed them at some point because I was done with things being removed

[01:31:56] I'm owning that because I will watch it again and again My Buffy experience watched it when it was brand new watched it every single night When I went to bed I'd just stick on a Buffy tape to fall asleep

[01:32:10] We were still talking in the days of EHS here people Snick on my Buffy cassette and off I would go to sleep Sometimes I'd make it through the whole four episodes that were on a tape Sometimes I'd be asleep 30 minutes in But they just go on a cycle

[01:32:24] They go all the way around and then we got to the end, we just start again That's my bedtime stories I think I had Bibi did that for 10 years maybe I mean sometimes I watched other stuff if I was sucked into something

[01:32:38] but I'd always go back to Buffy always and then I took a longer breaks maybe the last 10 years or so but I recently re-watched it again a couple of times, I'm enjoying having to re-watch We all have our comfort shows don't we? Definitely, definitely

[01:32:54] So yeah, there's loads of things that we can do This is just the beginning Infinite Universe Infinity of Universes I don't know Multiverses So yes, Fab really looking forward to all those shows in the future but for now we're on Heist of the Dragon

[01:33:14] Territory and I was so excited Yeah, are we moving to our spoiler section should we let our listeners know that? I think we we're about ready to wrap up there Yes, so before you go actually we want to let you know ways in which you can contact us

[01:33:30] So Emma? So if you want to contact us you can head over to our website which is just theunrealour.com where you can find links to our social media on Patreon to review, like, follow and subscribe You can also leave us a voice message

[01:33:44] that we might use on the show Finally you can email us at listenersownattheunrealour.com So if you like what we're doing here and you want to support the show then visit patreon.com slash the unrealour to show your support where you can subscribe for ad free listening

[01:33:58] and exclusive content If you don't want to commit to a monthly subscription then you can buy me a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash the unrealour to cover costs and to keep the light on Once again, thanks for listening Until next time, keep it unreal

[01:34:12] And now we have reached the spoiler section So let's start with a couple of things that we didn't talk about earlier The Aegon's Conquest stuff like we couldn't say about his sister Diane, I just was I was like he's really stuck around without crying, really

[01:34:30] like, what do you say? She died on her dragon And I love the way that it's written though there's this ambiguity about how she died So did she die? Or did she die even? There's some accounts say that she fell from the dragon and then was crushed underneath

[01:34:46] the weight of the dragon Some say that she fell with the dragon Or that they captured her and tortured her Yep, that was the other theory I think for dramatic effect when they do cover this that they might go down the torture route just because it's

[01:35:04] I like her character It's more interesting TV isn't it? Meraxes was a beast of a dragon the way it's described I'd love to see it And another thing, the Conquest spin-off would be absolutely fab for it has been able to see Hilarion and Meraxes and Vhagar

[01:35:22] in their glory days although Vhagar is very much still in her glory days She is a badass bitch of a dragon All these sort of backstabbing politics and war and stuff of the Aegon's Conquest as well I think that's going to be super interesting

[01:35:38] One of the things that really stood out for me throughout this book was Migor He talked about how bad a man he was but the thing that stood out for me the most was when he completed the red keep but then absolutely slaughtered

[01:35:52] everyone that was involved in the building because of the secret tunnels and stuff I think, do not have a popular opinion but I slightly felt sorry for him a little bit because he just absolutely freaked out that he couldn't have an heir

[01:36:06] He just wanted an heir so bad and then he absolutely lost it and then met this mad Where was she? Was it a Tyroshi woman? That's the one, yes She was worse than him She was crazy Yes, she was a bit mad

[01:36:22] I think she had such an effect on him and his desperation to have an heir and his jealousy and just pushed him, pushed him and then he like slaughtered her, he tortured her He did, yes eventually she got it too And then the poor guy was just like

[01:36:40] I think he ended it What do you think happened? Do you think he was murdered? I think he ended it I think he thought nobody cares I'm just alone here As it turned out he wasn't cursed or anything So that's how the babies were all deformed and like

[01:36:58] winged and there was a friendship between them Reminding me of Melisandre and Stannis where she was manipulating his want for the throne and his desire to be the king If you do this thing you'll get, so you have to do this thing

[01:37:18] No, you have to burn your kid to death Exactly, first it's you know burning some leeches and then it's burning your children She absolutely broke the guy I think that relationship was very similar in that way I would love it if this Aegon's conquest thing

[01:37:32] goes into meagre because I would love to see this stuff acted out because honestly, it's insane It's utterly insane some of the things that happened there Was there anything like later on in sort of like in Jihadi's time or anything else that stood out to you

[01:37:48] that you didn't get into? The best of them, wasn't he? And I love him and Alessandre's relationship, even from a kid he was like such a strong wee guy, wasn't he? Yeah, very certain and such a thinker Yes, definitely He is by far the greatest

[01:38:08] king that Westeros ever knew and that's saying something beyond Aegon Aegon was a kind of war He was a tactician But he wasn't mad, he was just strong and Jiharris was kind of like, my grandad was correct in what he was doing because he won in the end

[01:38:26] But you catch more of his sugar than you do a stick so I think that was my approach Definitely However, he still had the look, I've got vermouthor Oh god, yeah And you are all my captors because I could definitely set you all on fire

[01:38:44] if I really had to But you're not going to because you win more with words That's basically what he said Alright, okay, you've obviously read that chapter very recently Yeah, I had to go back We were fucking through that again

[01:38:58] I don't remember that now I only read it last week But that that chapter in the book, Jiharris and Alessandre is like a three hour chapter It is so long but it's full of just so much intrigue and concern But while it was a time of peace

[01:39:18] there was a lot going on It was a lot more to do as a family though You know, they had There's a lot of breakdown in relationship and then reconciliation Yes, yes I think my favourite story from that time and something I would love to see

[01:39:34] explored further but I don't think we will It's right in the middle of peace times so I can't see the rest of the story around it making for a good spin-off I remember Reena had the twin daughters to her brother Aegon and the oldest of the twins

[01:39:50] They were swapped possibly One cried every time a dog came near her and she was terrified of dragons and the other one was very confident One was sent to a sect, I think However, when she was sent originally she was rude to the sisters

[01:40:10] and was told off all the time and the other one was she cried at court and she was just so something, oh it was the golden wedding I think And I think they took the opportunity then to swap them because then the other one went back

[01:40:26] to the sect and she was a model student Do you know what All of this is making sense to me but my brain just did not click on the fact that they had maybe been swapped That's really interesting This is after the swap

[01:40:40] and the one that's supposed to be the older of the two Is that the one that's at the sect? Aria Aria, Aria Targaryen That's right, she was Aria and her sister was Reela the secta So Aria, she was in trouble she was naughty

[01:41:00] There's a part of the story where she runs off to finally the scene is her mother storming in and going away and she's taking a dragon with her not just any dragon, she's taking Belerion and she's flown off on Belerion the Blackbread and she comes back

[01:41:16] months maybe a year later I think and the dragon just lands in the courtyard the dragon's scarred as well as what's got new scars that no one remembers it having before and she is flopping over Oh I remember this Yeah, so she's like flopping over

[01:41:34] and she's dying and the maesters take her inside and they try to try up her and they can see what looks like these little worms big worms in her stomach moving around through her skin and then I think they put it in a bath

[01:41:48] and all the worms come out of her and they all instantly die in this bath as soon as they go, oh no, ebgb that's disgusting But we totally want to see it on the screen We totally do want to see it

[01:42:00] but you know what I really want to see more than that because it's so close there's no one I'll ever know because she died a couple of days later There's another character that I'd quite like to see Alyssa Farnham Yeah, oh that's interesting

[01:42:16] Because she just runs away, isn't she on her ship and she runs off with something She steals three dragon eggs Three Easter eggs she's off with Three Easter eggs, you're right So I believe that those are the same three dragon eggs that Daenayne sends out

[01:42:34] Yeah, that Daenayne's hatches many, many years later 200 years later in fact So that's interesting That would be quite cool to see what her where did she go, what does she do Exactly, what happened and how much did she get for those eggs I find that fascinating in itself

[01:42:50] the fact that those eggs that Daenayne's hatches are 200 years old is like a dormancy about them until the They're in the fire and they just come alive And that is amazing I hear that it didn't work out so well for Duncan Egg but But that's another

[01:43:09] So that's not a spoiler What a spoiler section Exactly Oh right, it's good, we're allowed I almost forgot So while we're still in our spoiler section unless there was anything else for the books that you that you wanted to get out there

[01:43:24] No no, I've let it out, I'm happy now Right, so we have reached time for our rewatch of House of the Dragon What are you most looking forward to seeing next? Again, she doesn't Again, oh I'll give you my best and my worst

[01:43:38] Go for it, go for it, go for it I'll give you the worst first That scene with Damon and Raina Or Reina Oh my giddy eye Are we talking about the brothel scene? It's so horrendous It's so uncomfortable isn't it You may have to just get that

[01:43:55] No we won't Dear, yeah but we're going to have to go through that again Yeah Which is absolutely dreadful So that's it, that was probably the worst scene I did not feel comfortable with that at all It was rather weird Oh well what's your best

[01:44:09] What's your best bit that you're looking forward to? I think my best one is when Raina's firsts in on our dragon Oh yeah that's awesome I love her, she's one of my absolute faves She is absolutely a force but she just, I love how calm together she is

[01:44:27] She's just watching and observing until she's like right It's time to step in First time through the walls on our dragon It has enough of you kids Exactly, let the grown-up speak now Definitely Right, I don't know if it has a worst bit other than that brothel scene

[01:44:48] I'm right where you're with you I'm most looking forward to seeing I mean aside from the dragons and the backstabbing and the politics and all that stuff because that's always fun too I think I am most looking forward to seeing that scene with Matt Smith on the Pirates

[01:45:04] Oh yeah He was so fricking badass It was unbelievable Like I have to say that I was unsure of the cast then right up until that point Yeah I would go with that Up until that point I was like I love Matt Smith

[01:45:19] I have absolutely nothing against him I just was having trouble picturing him as this badass, Targaryen warrior Royalty then going on I mean we've seen him as royalty before in the crowd He was a brilliant Prince Philip Who did you have cast as Daemon Targaryen Oh God

[01:45:38] Now that is That's a hard question I think that's moving my point actually I would have went for someone unknown I think that for me Matt Smith was too well known that I was having trouble seeing Daemon Targaryen and I was just seeing Matt Smith

[01:45:54] I was seeing Doctor Who I was seeing Prince Philip I was seeing Doctor Who all over that Yeah but I wasn't seeing Daemon Targaryen until that scene And that scene blew me away and I was totally on board with Matt Smith in that role afterwards

[01:46:10] That was my favourite moment for him So I'm most looking forward to seeing that scene again because I think I watched it like three times at a time I did love Recessifan's as OUI high tower I thought he played it really well

[01:46:22] Again, thought it was a weird casting It's not how I pictured him in my mind He played the part so well Right, yeah he did He was absolutely fantastic Again, I agree with you He was so strong But it's not how I pictured him either

[01:46:39] There's also a couple of others as well now that I think about The Chinese for example Her mother is a Baratheon and she was described in the book as having dark hair Again, why have they done it? Distinguishers, I'd argue Absolutely, it makes complete sense

[01:46:55] But I think also going with that the bastard boys the strong boys like Rhaenyra's kids Yes, definitely So if you'd given her dark hair it would have confused the issue She would have been better Oh, she didn't know about that

[01:47:07] Was she on the other side of the line but it's not on there I think there's one of the things that they heavily put into Game of Thrones is that that dark-haired black-haired gene of the Baratheons is quite a dominant gene as well

[01:47:18] I mean, the Baratheons are Targaryens Yes, they are They are definitely descended from because they were Aegon's Aegon's half-brothers The very first hand of the king was Aegon's half-brother He was Orless Baratheon I think he was, yeah Yeah, he was So, yeah, that dark-haired Baratheon gene was dominant

[01:47:40] and then they put this in the book but then the TV show of went down and it's just going to get too confused and let's just make all the Targaryens blonde That'll work All the Targaryens are blonde and all the bastards can have dark hair

[01:47:52] so we can distinguish them That would be great Yeah, I feel for those kids, Jeroen That would have been probably the brightest ones because they were most diluted in gene, weren't they? Oh, yeah, absolutely That is a very, very shallow gene pool But yeah, they were great

[01:48:16] I think the kids that they brought in to the show as well were absolutely fantastic Some of them were supposed to be the baddies but I suppose they're not really because there is no good and bad in this world Everyone has shades of...

[01:48:33] It's all a kind of life, isn't it? And it's kind of how they have evolved because of their sources Yeah, Allison's kid-certain Allison's kid-certain But even her, she starts off as a really sweet girl and then turns into this evil bitch Yeah, definitely

[01:48:50] She is not a cat on Cersei Lannister She's the OG evil bitch, isn't she? She's brilliant The progression of Allison I felt that happened in Season 1 Looking at that trailer for Season 2 I think they're trying to paint her in this softer, conflicted light as well

[01:49:09] I don't remember her being soft and conflicted in the book As we've established, I'm re-doing the book Yeah, I hadn't read this far into Fire and Blood yet So when we started to do this I stopped the series' death in Fire and Blood

[01:49:25] and I said I am not reading on any further until we have finished our intro episode It was so, so hard to keep it in I sat there and I said, what am I going to read to fall asleep to tonight Not that Not Fire and Blood

[01:49:41] because I need to stay in pre-Firehouse of the Dragon mode Not fully immersed House of the Dragon mode I am definitely looking forward to this re-watch It's going to be awesome So, I think that brings us right to the end I think it does, yeah

[01:49:59] We are going to wrap this up now So thank you, those of us that have stuck around Probably nobody's listening to this spoiler section They've probably all switched off before we started it That's assuming we haven't any listeners yet Well, one day, one can dream

[01:50:14] One can dream, so for the moment we're talking to ourselves but we hope somebody out there will go back and listen to this episode one day I hope I'm family and to listen Yes, so at least a few listens I'll just do this

[01:50:24] To hold them a gun point Definitely I am all in You're all in Let's do this Well, until next time we'll be back in a few days with our first episode one breakdown It's going to be awesome

[01:50:39] So we'll look forward to any comments, feedback that you want to give us We mentioned earlier All the ways in which you can contact us There should be links to those things in the description of the episode when we upload it You can always drop us an email

[01:50:54] Drop us a voice message I like voice messages We want voice messages You've had to listen to our voice Absolutely, we want to hear your voices on the show So, let's do that So until next time, keep it on real