"The Red Sowing' & 'The Queen Who Ever Was" Part 2 (HOTD E7&8) (ACOIAF #16)

You are the true queen when you're first off and protector of the realm. I am meant to serve you and one of these with me until death. Well the end of our story. Welcome to the Unreal Hour. Hi there, and welcome back to part two of our episode covering the Red Sewing and the Queen Whoever Was. Although we are firmly into the Queen Whoever Was at this point, so let's just jump straight back in. So, what do you want to talk about next? Oh, let's talk you know what I really want to talk about. But let's get Jason Bela out of the way before we talk about what I want to talk about next. Now, Jason Bela's same is great. I loved it. I really did. She was like, she's so cool. My notes say, this girl is a voice of reason like her grandma, Wise and strong. Absolutely, I love her character and how well she's acted. She is. She's great. And at this point I feel like Beila's kind of been more a side part in other people's stories. We haven't had a chance to get to know her. Like what does what makes Bella? What does Beila do on her day off? Yeah, you know when she gets an hour to herself. What does she like to do? Yeah, how does Bella kick back? Exactly? I want to know more about her. I like her. She's cool, she's fist day, she's got all sorts of rainies vibes. Yeah, I just I hope and next season we get to see a lot more of her. But this scene in itself is great, son. Yes, please, it does not befit a prince to pout. You tell the girl I'm not party. Yes, I genuinely thought that in this scene, he's just. A brilliant. You're angry, aren't you. I don't see what good it would do. They are an insult to us, to what makes us targarians. If any common lout can ride. A dragon, that does not make me comment or you. You know what I am. I don't care. You are the crown Prince, the son of the rightful Queen, and here you are sulking because you believe that if not for the dragon or the trappings of your station, that you are nothing. Do you believe that you are the first noble heir who was not sired by his noble father, Such as the way of the world jays and them resenting it, You only diminish yourself. Easy enough to say, I've had the whispers the whole of my life and prove to. Them that you are worthy. Get up and take your place by your mother's side. For God's sake, stop whining. Yeah, you can kind of see it from his point of view, when it's been his whole life that he's been called a bastard, and then suddenly all these bastards are so important and the only thing I had to cling to was you're a targarian prince. Yeah. Well that's scupper, isn't it. Yeah, But I mean, like, what's the difference between him and Hugh Hammer? Yeah, like Devil's Advocate and de s I actually agree with. Is Baila's right. If you're just going to wallow in your own self pity, you're never going to move forward. You're just going to be a sad powty boy and you're not. You're a prince on it, stop whining. Just a prince the crown prince. Yeah, like you are heir to the throne. Mate. You have got everything laid out before you, and if you walk about doubting yourself, then you are just going to give all those other people that silently doubt you the ammunition that they need. He is literally the definition of the luckiest bastard in the world of West exactly. And again coming back to Bayla was right. Do you think you're the first nobleman not to be sired by your father? Your name father? It's no, there are plenty of them out there, John Snows and Ramsey Bulltons. Well, they're not born yet, so I don't know if they can't. And let's face it, the nation was built on bastards. There's no way that Garth the Green was married to all those women that you had birds with. I mean, the unlucky thing for Jess is the total emphasis on the hair color. So if that wasn't a factor, I Reckon like Bella, would have a stronger case in the respect that, Look, there's loads of bastards out there. He probably knows the multitude of bastards and they just get on with it. They don't even know. But unfortunately, your hang up is on your hair color. I don't I'll get yourself a bad bleach job and move on. Damon had one in season one. Let's just go for it. I needed to swallow, but you made me laugh. That was so hard Damon's season one bleach job, I mean, yeah, that's definitely one for the record books. A fuck, absolutely, like that's nineties Emma bleach job. Yeah, maybe even beyond that. Actually, you've seen my hair of that color. There was a stage when you had Yeah, that's because you tried to go from purple to platinum. Dear, Yeah, that will fry anyone's. Here for the record, I'm not bald anymore, or at that time. You gave me a great friend. We're joking. Her hair barely survived, but it survived, right, So do we have any other thoughts on the teenage targetians? No, I'm I'm good. Okay, we have not had them Hall yet, we are, Yeah, Haron Hall. Let's do this. Well, that's actually lead up to Haron Hall, because it's Alfred Broom and then Sir Simon sort of passing his note on, So it's Alfred Broom toddling off. Yes, Sir Simon going here, yeah, Dick, and then that's what causes Nira to go. Right, well, rewind and let's talk about Alfred Room. What a traitor is bastard and the other sense of the word bastard. Yeah, I in my notes. I had his conversation with them and with them, and I did love the turn Cloak phrase. That was great. But in my notes I put Alfred Broom here. All we need a we're a king, and I just thought that's a that's it. He needs a hero, Damon, you need to be a hero here. I'm holding a very hero. That's the one. He's gotta be blonde. But do you know that, Like, honestly, he's so different with Damon than Brenina is all Sassin in her face and He's like, yes, Demon, right, yes, sir, Yes, he was a totally different man, wasn't he. I love the way Demon was smirking, and I'm like, oh, you see for exactly what. But at the same time, you couldn't tell whether Damon was like. Yes, this is a shout, I'm up for this, or. Yeah, I'm just gonna hold onto this for now to have decided what to do with that, which is looks like that is the case. But yes, let's hear the clip because I love this scene. So Alfred Broom has come to see. You, sent as an emissary from the Queen to ascertain your movements and your intentions. You've arrived just in time to see my new army room. What do you think of it? It's very large. As she said, I end marked on the King's landing before he can catch me. May I have a word in private, your grace. I would speak honestly with you and expect nothing less. I was faithful to the King, your brother. I pledge my banners to we nearer, his heir. I will never serve the usurpers or the whelps of old Town. But there are battles to be fought, and in times like this, did you hear something? This place will have you barking at the moon. That is so creepy. While you have married an army, Raniera has faltered, turning aside from our judgment and taking a course. I myself deem reckless. Veneera will chart her own course for good or ill. But you are a leader of men. If you declare yourself, your lords will follow you. I never took you for a turn cloak. Mm hmmm, so our friend, mm hmm. Raniera's intentions are good, But what we need in this moment. Is a king a hero. Oh yeah, for those of you who have wa'ts your TV at a low volume, or don't have subtitles on the screen. The wind that just called him a traitor. But in case she didn't pick up on that the first time, the Wind just called him a traitor. Like, I am so excited about this. It is unbelievable. And Emma's Bonnie Tyler impression as well. It's on a whole other level, right. But anyway, like, if the Wind is talking to him, then there's only two explanations, but one of them actually rules himself out. Bran, we have seen in Game of Thrones whispering to the wind whispering and his and Ned hearing it. Yeah, he wasn't sure what he heard. There was also a moment with Theon as well. He also talked to Theon, and the was more susceptible to it because Theon was out of his mind at the time. So, Bran, we has definitely done this. Bran asks blood Raven about it, and blood Raven says any attempts he had made had failed. Okay, bearing in mind that this is before Bland Bran and blood Raven's time, but they can see the past, present, future, et cetera. So wait, I mean it could maybe it's a previous Greens here with prior to Blood Raven and Bran. But as far as blood Raven says that he has tried and it's always failed. But maybe maybe he just thought it failed and it didn't. You never know. But because Alfred Broom's reaction there and the fact that he was like, did you hear that? Did you see? If Blood Raven was watching, he would have like, oh, he heard me, he heard me, but he didn't. So maybe it's a future brand. Maybe it had something that hasn't happened yet that you know. I mean, they're separate canons, I understand that. But in this cool world in my head where you put the cannons together, it's awesome. It could be so cool that that Brian is watching this scene from the future in Whispering. It's not unlikely. Look at Helena and the things that Helena sees and her distorted sense of reality because she's just living in the weirdest sort of cycle of has this happened yet? Is this happening now? Did that happen? Like? What's what's going on? She seems a lot she's a bit more aware. Yeah, well, let's not get on at Helena too soon, but we'll come back to Helena and a bit. But yeah, there's there's there's something to go on there. Yeah, but here we are in Harall. I mean, like Damon is it's just so hard to read in that situation, don't you think. I think it's brilliant. It's really come back to our demon. Yes, yes, definitely apparently murdery your wife is redeemable to Ice and Fire. Fans, Well, you know it's it's it's in the past. That was the last season. You know, this is not real. This is our escapism. So it's a redemption arc. That's a better, that's a better. That's not better. So this whole conversation is overheard by Simon Strong, and of course he sends a letter to Dragonstone. I think this was an awesome move. I love it. I love that little Tim and Simon Strong's just like, nah, fuck this, I'm telling nia like I'm. Grassing Simon the lurker. Yeah, he's like, nah, not having. That, definitely not No. No, he's good though. He's so smart because he seems to know when is the right time. You know, it's like, nah, actually that's too far. Something really terrible will come of this. Not that really terrible things haven't already happened from Damon discussing things with people. But this one, Sir Simon is like. Nah, nah, nah, this is a bit too far for me, Like. Does he have some creepy Haron Hall juju that He's like, No, I got a bad vibe about this. Like, well, maybe. I'm sorry. What is you amazy? Miss you hi Kirie? So yeah, what is going on there? Is he is he tuned into the Haronhall vibes to the war? Would net? I mean he's been there what his whole life? Yeah, it seems that way. So sure you would. Yeah, I don't know, you would have some sort. Of certainly being there for decades. Yeah, Like there there must be a vibration he has, like place he must be like, nah, this one's off that one innocence we're slaughtered and someone had their head cut off. That one I didn't feel the need to go on grasp But this one, this sketchy conversation, I think, h yeah, I want to grasp on this one. So there must be something in that that he's like, No, this is the. Is an emissary from Rania having a conversation about betraying Raniera. That is you know, there's no question there anymore about what side Damon's falling on. If Damon is that he's taking him up in the offer and he hasn't shot him down. So in his words, he fears treachery. And yeah, I think my perspective on it comes for the do you know, like what what the outcome of the treachery is? So I'm wondering where Sir Simon's motivations are. So there's just been this horrible conspiracy with Demon and the Blackwoods, Brackens. He was conspiring with the Blackwoods to take out the Brackens yea, or to get the Brackens on side. All these innocent people died, like women and children. It was quite disgusting what happened to them. And Sir Simon, not that you let that slide, but I didn't think. That that was a he didn't tell Rinia. Yeah, but this one, maybe maybe he's like, oh, it's personal enough to runider that she'll do something this time. So maybe he's just picking his battles and the ones that he think he could or maybe an outcome. Maybe despite Damon's the Blackwoods despicable actions, it was still kind of winning Ranida's side. Yeah, and the other thing was about taking Rinia down. And I don't think it's so much about being one thousand percent loyal to Rania. He just fucking hates Lartice. I like to think that Sir Simon is a good person and cares for the people that because he's a high up guy, so he's responsible for people within his domain. So I'd like to think that he's like, I kind of look after these people. This is my duty. Yeah, so that should be his motivation. I want to believe that's his motivation. And I wonder if he's maybe just seen enough of Demon's shit choices then guys here going along with my thought process here, So yeah, maybe he seen enough of Demon's ship thought processes and choices. And when enough's enough, this is going to result in another mass annihilation of people that are here with. Me and treachery in this war so far, and I. Don't want anymore. And it's right on my doorstep, and I want the people on my doorstep to survive and to thrive. And it's hard enough where he is, isn't it. Damon and Sir Alfred Broom popping in and making it worse and these are foreigners to him, really are there? You're coming here and you're you're making a mess. Stop making a mess, guys. It's rude, it's bad hospitality. I just think we'ld come back to your earlier point. I think. I mean, even Laris talked about the bad jujo in Haron Hall, I don't think you could live there that long and not feel it, not be tuned into something. Maybe some maybe some dreams. I mean, like, even if you're going back to the original source, Jamie had some pretty prophetic like dreams when he fell asleep on a stump of awarewood. Just being that close to a werewood tends to give people visions. And I'm wondering if something in a vision told Simon Strong to send that letter to Rania or maybe Alice. We might have to wind this tangent and very short one. We can discuss it maybe in a video or in another episode. But I wonder how much of Laris's motivations and choices in the way that he is has come from growing up in a Haronhall situation. Mmm. Interesting, but it was a good tangent. It was on topic at least I wasn't telling childhood stories this time. On Fire tonight, guys on. So I suppose the next Harron Hall scene we have is when Weneda arrives. Yeah, and it's so no, no, no, it's not. Damon has his dreams before that. Oh his god would, Yes, Damon has his dreams before arrives. So let's talk about Damon's dreams. Do we have a clip? We have a little bit of a clip. Yeah, So first of all, Alice. Damon wakes to find Alice sitting on the end of his bed acting not at all creepy. And I'm going to play that just tiny little clip there because this scene is so eerie and audio is even better. Yeah, this seemed to be perpetually pissed. Why I'm going to the god to her. So as they walk out here, we see this coven boodade horned humanoid ducking around behind the tree, which, for those of you that don't know, that was a green man. And I've seen a lot of things out there after this episode aired, people thinking it was a child of the forest or something like that. No, absolutely not. It's definitely one hundred percent a green man. The green Man. Green men are from the Isle of Faces, which is just there, right next to Haron Hall. And we don't know enough about them. We don't know enough about them yet to be able to say what their motives are or anything like that. But the fact that there was one in this scene is the hugest lord drop that you could possibly ever give Ice and Fire fans in a TV show related Ice and Fire. You know, it's it's not one hundred percent cannon because it's not in the books, but bloody hell, it was bloody amazing. I'm so excited. I can't I can't hope with how excited I was to see this beast ducking down behind the tree. I'm sorry I can't takeover. So for me, I obviously, as you guys know, I haven't I haven't read the books, so I'm not up to date on this kind of canon. And in my notes it said, rewatch this, what's the explanation? Marks several times it said because I didn't understand what the cloven hoof Antlered did was all about. And it wouldn't matter if I'd watched it a thousand times, I still wouldn't have understood. Yeah, so amazing that you can give me that information, that that's that's what that is. It's a massive war drop. So great for me. I'm so so excited to dive into that and go, Wow, what are the Green Men? Where are they from? Why is that green man there? What's going on? This is really cool and it's literally a two second thing and it's such a big bomb. It's so cool, so cool. I mean, to get into what we know about the Green Men would be far too much for this, but that is why our first episode is going to be around the First Men, and the Green Men come into this story quite a lot. Yeah, and I can't tell you how excited I am to say these these YouTube things like I'm going to find out so much, so so much. And you guys have got the obvious a privilege or a curse of me going through reading the books for the first time, So that would be great fun. But I reckon, I'm going to have to share that with our listeners as well of how excited I am. It's going to be great. I'm so excited. So anyway, reeling us back in, look at you go go there. So before we get to Damon's vision, Alice gives a little speech. Very eerie, isn't it. Yeah, it's really cool. It's awesome. I mean, first of all, she's like, they're always here for those who seek it. And then she's like, why aren't you laughing at me? You're always laughing at me? And then she laughs. Was just brilliant. I know, it's like, I'm not inclined to anymore. She's like, how the mighty have fallen? But yeah, it's it's very intense. So what is it? Do you think that she's seen change in Damon? That's says he's ready now? Oh, God knows, she's watching his dreams. Yes, she's where would pasting him left, right and center? God knows, who knows? The gods would knows, that's who knows exactly. She's getting messages from somewhere else to say he's ready. Now we've fucked with him enough, it's time. And so he puts his hands on the trees and the blood falls over his hand, which is so cool. Yeah, it's cool. And visually this was awesome, and here we go. I got the breakdown with this vision. So first of all, we see the tree roots and which carry we're in a blood raven. It's blood raven that we see sitting in the where we would throw and then we get this dire wolf perspective of them traveling through the woods towards the White Walkers, and there was one white Walker and a holl load of whites, which was just wicked cool. It was not the Night King. It was just a white Walker. And while we're on the subject, this does not mean that Damon is the freaking Night King, despite however many means I saw trying to tell me that the week that this episode released, Damon is not the fucking Night King. The ni King existed long before this. The Night King was the thirty the Knights King, not to be confused with HBO's Night King made up by Dan and Dave as a protagonist for the TV show Game of Thrones, who was never in the books. Absolutely, I'm not saying that in the books there wasn't a great other potentially, right if the books later revealed there to be some sort of great other out there, then fair enough. But right now, as it stands, the Night King that HBO portrayed in Game of Thrones is not cannon to the books. However, there is a character in the books in the Lore of the Books called the Knights King. He was the thirteenth commander of the Knight's Watch, and he fell in love with some icy witch women that he saw from atop the wall, and they had their some sort of spooky magical consummation in which he gave her his seed and soul, and then they enthralled the members off the Knight's Watch that were under his command as some kind of like zombie like slaves, and they were said to be sacrificing to the others, and they were, and the Knights King was stopped. It doesn't say whether he was killed or whatever happened. It just said that he was stopped only by the Stark and Winder felt at the time. Who's Brandon the Breaker I believe, and the King beyond the Wall Jorman who united forces to bring down the Knights King. I don't know how they brought him down or whether they just stopped him, or whether they killed him or what happened there. It's all very vague in this history. Is there any Dragon Glass involved? Very much? For someone who hasn't read the books and only watched the show, well, that's kind of they just steal that plot. This is all very and this all happened at the Night Fork as well, which is the oldest castle on the Wall, which is the one that Bran and Sam and that sneaked under through the secret underground tunnel to pass the wall in the origin in the main story. But anyway, this guy has got absolutely naffl to do with Damon. But the makeup was cool. It was awesome and in this in this like scene and also the Night King. I don't care who wrote it. The makeup was cool. Oh. The Night King guy was absolutely brilliant in Game of Thrones. It was like, was he not something? Dude? That was like, what was it? He was the said stunt guy. When they decided they were casting for that, it was like, it has to be you. It just does. So they just took someone right out of their crew and cast them and he was fabulous in the role. I see. This is the thing about the things that are not cannon in Game of Thrones. It doesn't mean that they were bad. Yeah, you're allowed to enjoy it, guys. I did. Yeah, I enjoyed it for what it was. But I'm quite resolute in my heart that that is not the real story, and that would have been better helped by trying to adapt a completed story rather than jumping in at something that's only five books into a seven book man. So yeah, they did what they did, and they did the best they could with it. And at the end of the day, they don't have George Georgie's they didn't have Georgie's source material to work with after a certain point, and they just adapted what they could. They took what the George worked with them up to a point. Yes, I'm not sure what happened after they ran out of source material. I'm not sure how closely they were working with George at that point. But what I do know is that towards the end of Game of Throwings, George was not a happy man. George was quite depressed and struggling to write. And it was only once the season eight kind of negativity died down. To make it right. Yeah, that's what happened, human being. It's cool. Yeah, And I'm not saying there was some great stuff in the later seasons again with Thrones, even if it wasn't canon, even if it's for those of us that have read it and theorized are like, no way was it going that way. It's like anything else though, Like you can love a book. Yeah, However, when it goes on to screen, sometimes it doesn't translate, and then other times it has to be adapted for screen, sometimes. Not finished, yeah, being adapted. And I think when it's a world, So when it's a world, like George is created, or like Token is created, or there's many others. The real time guy, whatever his name is. Yeah, So anyway, I digress. The point of it is that you just got to love being back in that world. And as a fantasy fan, I just love being there and I all the time, effort and money that's been put in to doing that, and I'm just not a negative person. No neither I can say that I except maybe the last episode, but I probably enjoyed every episode a Game of Thrones right up to the end, even though I'm like, oh my god, this is so far off, But there was moments, there was elements of it that that we're entertaining that were impressive, that were you know, even if it's not what I wanted the story. I haven't read the books. I also thought the ending was quite shit. It was. I thought I felt it was just a bit a bit rushed and a bit pish, and really you. Didn't feel like that's where it was going. For the seven years before. The writing just wasn't well, the writing wasn't the same, but it was obvious. Yeah, it was obvious to me as someone. There was a lot of stuff that happened and see six and season seven that also wasn't taken from any George Martin source material that was really good, Like the Battle of the Bastards, it was freaking brilliant. Yeah, there was the other battle with when Denaries and Drogon go and burn the Lanster Army that was fucking epic as well The Long Night, except for you know, Aria seven the Day, because that's not the way this story's going, by the way, despite the fact that I love Aria and she's probably going to do some awesome shit, but it's not that though. So there's a lot of things in there that just that weren't ever going to happen, but they were still entertaining to watch, and so therefore noticing Game of Thrones around here. We accept what was shit about it. We love what we love about it. But as intelligent people, we understand the George that we love, that we first fell in love with, he had no part really of the way that ended, you know, it's cool and it's it's like talking stuff. I love talking. I'm totally fine with Rings of Power because he didn't write it as an adaptation of his ideas, and I just want to be back there because he's not here anymore. I'm sure that much about Rings that was just amazing to be in that world. I haven't seen all of the second season yet, so I can't comment, but all I can say is I keep being thoroughly impressed with the visuals within that show. And certainly there's some characters there that I'm like, oh, we a bit of development. I could get right on board with this character. But at the same time. It's you've got to take the bare bones or something right. So when you love an author and you can you can tell me what it is about George, right, So for me, I love the description of the landscape. Landscape descriptions are everything in token and language. Language is the main thing. He was a linguist and that's what he loved so and he does it so well in his books. So for George, he's a historian and he does love battle tactics. He does, and he does he occasionally dabbles his hand in a little bit of horror right in yep, he certainly he's a sci fi writer as well. He loves to draw on mythology and history and the writers that inspire him as well, and he like put all of that together into I don't feel like I feel like this is George's magnum opis, right, But it's not just his magnum opis. It's the magnum opus of everything great. He's ever rid, everything that he's ever studied, everything that he ever thought was cool as fuck. He's just put it all together. So in that respect, I think it's fair for fans of George to accept that George is cool with people adapting his world. He has adapted to his world from other people's ideas, so I'm pretty sure George is like, yeah, no, that's cool. To eight point to a point like this show that we're podcasting, you can't deviate from the books that massively without George being like, oh right, come on. Guys, Like, seriously, last time I've had they finished the books, But this time I fucking finished the book, right, You've not got any excuses this time. This time, I finished the book. Then he go, changing, shit, you're just taking the piss. Anyway back in right, So where were we white walkers and whites? And then Damon is walking through a muddy field of dead dragons and bodies, so we know that this is it's Yeah, it's it's I don't think it's a literal vision of the future. I think it's symbolic of the the carnage that is about to ensue. Yeah, the dragons. Yeah, many people and many dragons are going to die. That is the message here. And then he falls forward into this puddle pool of water and then what we see is him drowning, like something's pulling him down. Yep, definitely feel like something was pulling him down. It looks like he's drowning, but he is certainly not dead in that scene. Then everything changes it suddenly it's the future. We see the That was fucking cool. That comment is so important. Then we see the dragon eggs and the fire. These are definitely Danny's eggs, which brings us to another conversation about how we kind of missed this when the episode was happening. That those eggs that Raina took with her, there was four eggs, so it is implied that three of those eggs are Danny's eggs within this cannon. This is not the case if you have read Fire and Blood, because it is heavily implied that those eggs were stolen during the time of Raina Targarian who was the first rider of dream Fire. To just give you context of a timeline without getting too much, this one. And Drew Farman and. One of the black brides of Meg or the crew. But yes she was. It was Andrew Farman's sister, Alissa who ran off with three dragon eggs, and she was a lover of It was implied that they were lovers, and the story is more interesting from there. So Raina, so Alisa Farnham. From from where she stole those eggs, she headed to old Town where she sold the eggs to fund ships, and then she went off on an adventure. Or did she sell the eggs straight away or did she just get ship pass. I'm unclear about the egg part. I will edit this as for double checking when I edit. I think she used the eggs for the ships. I think she did. I think she used the eggs to fund the ships, and then she went off on these ships. They sailed south, discovered three islands which they named Agon Rarey's and Vicina, but there was storms and half the fleet there. There was three ships that went with them, a couple of the guys on board were I'm pretty sure there was a high tower on the ships. The son of the Lord high Tower at the time went sailing with. Her and. The two of the other ships. One of them was completely destroyed. Then they ended up on the Summer Isles, which they kind of got patched up, and then they just headed back to old Town again, in which they said that when they left rain As she was heading west. Yes, and that was the last anybody saw or not Raina, Sorrylisa. The last they saw Alissa Farnham. She was heading west. And many people think that she is that she is Quaith, the woman that we saw giving Denaries some weird prophecies in season two. There's more of Quaith in the book than there is in the TV show, which had the weird mask, the metal mask on. Yeah, it was like little metal squares all over her. Do you remember her? No, My brain is going with I'm going to have to read these books and I'm sure how the timeline correlates and how she's managed to magic. Dear magic, Remember Melissander's four hundred years. Yeah, but where did she come across the magic to preserver as shy. This is the theory that she's went from there. This is why I have to read the books because none of this makes sense. And I'll tell you why. Because the ship that she left on. I'm sorry, I'm just showing Emma the picture of Quaith here. Showing him of the pictures with words with no glasses, which is of absolutely don't use the ornament to me. The reason why they think the quwaiit sorry that Alissa Farnham ended up in a shy is because Corliss Valerion, on his trip to a shy, saw the wreckage of her ship. Oh right, okay, right, well total sense. Now this is why I need to read more. You either saw it or heard of it or whatever I think he saw it. But anyway, Yeah, the ship that Alissa Farnham set sail on was the ship that Carlis saw few on. Our drinks wine and she knows. Things she does. That's why I can hear that large pouring of wine. So here we are back to Damon's dreams. Damon's dream this is just one freaking dream. But there was so much in it. So anyway, here we are. So we have demon drown, the comet, dragon eggs, and the fire. Then we see the Mother of Dragons. We see Danny with her little baby dragons. It was not Amelia Clark. It was recast just for this scene and remade. It was not straight out of Game of Thrones. Then we see Renier on the throne. I just liked it before we go back to that. I feel like this whole vision of Danny is further emphasis. Is that Danny is the prince that was promised and not the tyrant that we saw in the last few episodes of Game of Thrones. That is what George was always trying to imply in the books. And I don't know how Dann and Dave got that so wrong, but anyway, that's what they did. Maybe because they're nihilists, they're just like, eh, yeah, nobody's that good. Let's just destroy her, make her evil. Because there is a little bit of foreshadowing in those books that Danny's going to do something dark. I don't think it's going to be that dark, and I don't think it's going to be evil. I think she's going to be driven to some maybe dark actions, maybe burning somebody. We saw a little bit that. Anyway, I mean, I know she burns the slavers. However, it's still murder, it is, they're still alive. She's a conqueror. Yeah, so those things within a human being's actions are dark. They're dark actions. And I think that's as dark as her from I haven't read the books, we all know, but anyway, I think that's, from what I can understand, as dark as her character should have gone. Yes, I absolutely don't think that she needed to be as dark as Rania. No, she did not. She's not a reincarnation of Raniera's sunken actions. No, she's not. And we'll get to that because Nina hasn't really done anything shocking yet. No, but she has done all that dragon Seed stuff, which is quite shocking. And in the eyes of I mean, if we if we were just reading from Fire and Blood right now, we would be under the impression that Ranida was maybe partly responsible for Blood and Cheese as well, which so the Dragon paints her as an innocent bystander in this situation. But the masters think that she did it, the people think that she did it. This is where Ranida the crew came from. But Ranida's own actions. Thus far, the worst thing that Rinida has done is her sort of crazy zella I'm going to burn these dragon seeds because I have to have a means to an end. And that's dark. Is that's some dark shit? Yeah? She was getting all kinds of tingles watching people burn. And I don't think that Danny's character should was that kind of thing. From what I watched she was. It was just she was revolutionary issue is a liberationist? Yeah? Is that word anyway? So we see Raniera on the throne. That was some sixth cent shit going on, definitely. So we got Rinira on the throne there, and it takes a week while for it to come in focus for Damon that it is Rania. Yeah, And I think that's significant because everything's happening so fast in this dream, but there's this moment for Damon to absorb the message that for all of this, this is what has to happen, it's in order for it's that message that the rner on that throne is what will lead to Danny further downline. And they don't know if Danny's you know, would be born in one hundred years or next year, right, she could be a future child of Ranier and aiming for all he knows. They just know that it's that this is going to happen. It's going to happen from their line, but it requires Neer on the throne. The message was neer on the throne, not him, So it's significant. And Helena says, it's all a story and you are but one part in it. You know what you must do, And that was just all kinds of wicked cool. A lot of people are like having this, like how is Helena and Damon's dream. Because Helena's in everything, She's in all kinds of times like she's she's a seer. She is, she's a seer, she's a dreamer. She she knows no, she has a consciousness about what is going to happen, and she's living that consciousness in the moment but coming back to her own consciousness and that's where she seems dead cookie and weird, like she doesn't have a clue what's going on because she's just having these consciousness is that's a word, but yeah, that's that's the weird thing about Helena. And she's so girl. She really is, and she was very, very cool in these scenes in this episode. In this episode, I got the feeling that she is starting to understand her power, that she's going No, I. Didn't be confused about timeline anymore, does she? I think after the horrendous shit that happened with her kids, she's gone into a bit more of a there. It's not like just lucid dreams to her. No, she's like, wait a minute, this actually happened. This is happening, and she's piecing it together of when the reality is happening in the moment, which doesn't. Really cool used by the timeline anymore. Prior to Blood and Cheese, I feel like she didn't know. She knew these things were going to happen, she just didn't know when or how, or when they were real or when they weren't. But this she seems very clear in the timeline. It's very evident in the way she talks to Amond. Yes, are we done with Damon yet? We are happy to move on to Amond and Hilena's section. I mean I got along like we could probably talk about this stuff that Damon dreamed about forever. So Part two Amond and Helena's story arc throughout this episode. So yeah, let's say rewind a little bit before Amond arrives, Allison and Hilena are having this conversation and Helena's like, I was happier before it was queen and Allison's faces so as I Yeah, of course, Alison asked her, what would you think about leaving this place? Where would I go? Oh? Broke my heart felt so sad for in that moment, because again it's that thing. She knows the future. She knows the outcomes of the majority of this story, I'm sure, and she knows it's no point. Yeah, resistance is futile. Exactly like the borg. That is what that isn't art, right, Okay? So yeah, so they're having a really sad scene, and then of course Amon comes in and just ruins all the loveliness with his psycho rule tactics. I think the word I'm looking for? Yeah, right, okay, so let's say let's hear that clip and refresher memories. The Prince Regento Grace Helena. Anyway, mother, just going to the ground as need of your service. Now theretender has raised new riders against and you must answer in kind. And you do to fly with train fire the battle, and you know wish I always just must take second place now to what is necessary to preserve the throne. I won't burn anyone. Isn't a question. They have to file that birthright make commoners into dragon roars. A sinner must be run if your sister is still the queen as you were once and you. See now what is the consequence of your weakness. We are in peril today more than yesterday. Peril or basis fury, your own humiliation. Yep, that's a humiliation and kingdoms, but you rein ruin and death upon its small folks when you've been insulted because it makes you feel strong. And now you seem to corrupt your sister of all our line, the gentlest and most deserved. If you're protection will protect her If she cannot protect us, it's no longer our role that is threatened. Very live. Would you not have us prevailing this? Not like this? You tell them Alison, Yeah, she's got a memory. Definitely, I can't help. But just I really liked Alison and the majority of this episode. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, she's just she's seeing all the right things. Do you think she's come full circle. I do. I think she sees the error of her ways. The air of her was. Venda calls it later, you yourself made morality, your banner or something something along those lines, and yeah, she's that, that's what it is. It's she's come full circle around and saw that. Yeah, she was walking around with it all holier than our attitude. And truth is, she's a sinner herself, and she now she's she can now be Devil's advocate. She sees all sides. Now she understands that there was a misunderstanding with what Visseri said. And yeah, but anyway, we'll talk more about Alison later, but for now, let's stick on Helena and Amond. I really felt for Helena in this episode, in this episode, in this scene. Should say I felt for her in this scene. What did you think of the scene. I just think Amond is absolutely losing it. He's yeah, he's desperate, and he's now picking on his. Sister, absolutely because he knows that he is now outnumbered dragon wise. He had the big grand Nana dragon and he could thought you could take on any of them. He thought you could take on all of them. And yeah, he now knows that he can't do that, and I said, right, he was humiliated, so he just lash he's out. Yeah, he's coming across as very desperate. How you think about like those earlier scenes with him in the brothel and how when Egon came in and humiliated up, he just kept his cool, walked away. He's just been keeping a lid on all this for his whole life, and now he can't. He can't hold it back anymore. It's just no, all that rage is unleashed. Yeah, because he spent his life, you're right, keeping a lid on it, and he actually thought this was his time. Yeah, all right, e gones down, This is my time. This is what I've been waiting for. I have the biggest dragon within my grasp. And then it's swept away from him, right before his eyes, and he's espritt now yeah. Or it's about to be swept away from him. He can see it. You can see it coming now. The writing's on the wall. I think that trick to Dragonstone when he thought I'm in a rage, I'm going to go and sort this out and then went oh shit, turn back, turn back. Figure from then he's been like, fuck, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? And so yeah, dream Fire then next oldest dragon to Vagar. Verma Thorpe is the biggest, next to Vegar, but dream Fire is the oldest. She's one hundred years old. We talked about earlier, we did, We've talked about drink Fair. Yeah, but she's you know, she's one hundred years old and she is formidable. As Ridina put it, So I suppose what else could he do when you think about it's but it's the way he's gone about it that's the issue to suggest, Hey, do you want to join the fight sets? Because that would be cool, you know, And then she could say no. But you know, he's like trying to forcibly read her by the arm to the dragon. Bet there. Yeah, he thinks that she's weak. Yes, and she for what that girl endures on a daily basis, she may be the strongest. Of the lot of them. Yeah. Absolutely. Just to give a little bit more emphasis to how much Amen's lost. There, I've got another little clip here, wasn't it us? It appears that the Pretender sent boats to collect those among the small folks who believe they had any drop of Tigerian blood. Deception and subterfuge, gowards. All of them. Put an end to this madness. Let no vessel come, all go from our harbor without our inspection. This will hinder the work of the fishing boats. The people depend on them for sustems. They will need no sustenance if they are sloaded by the enemy. We must all make our sacrifices. And I think he'll views that as pragmatism. Yeah, that is just he is so not the right man for the job, I mean, and so many ways he's better suited to the role than Egon is, and in so many ways he's not. If you could take the two of them and maybe mash them together with their best traits, oh. My god, no, then you'd have Meg or the crewel Oh my god. No. I just mean that, like you know, you saw like a Egon want to be kind, He wanted to give you, wanted to give to the people everything that they asked for when they was still in court. If you could take that part of him, and then the military strategist and aim and in a time of war, then maybe it would be But unfortunately, no, they're there are two completely different people, and they're both equally unfit for the role in many different ways. But if you took the bad parts of them, yes, definitely, the good parts of them, there might be. Might because there's kindness and their strength. Yeah. So yeah, there's TARGETI and all the Targetian qualities are there. Yes, However, the bad ones seem to be prevailing with these two boys. And the other issue is they're they're not ready. They're not. I mean, Jeris was very young, but these boys aren't ready. No, everyone develops at different rates, and these boys aren't there. And they were never taught to rule like their sister. Yeah, and none of them were taught to rule. I don't really think the series was either. No one taught him to rule. He just inherited. Yeah. He didn't want it either. He didn't want it. He didn't expect it. And it was a nice booky guy. Yeah. And you know, his dad was the spear and Rainie's his dad was the air and he never expected to be in that position and he just wanted to, you know, read these books. Built some models, chill. Yeah. He probably would have hung out with his uncle, the one that turned was the septan. Yeah, I probably would hung out with him a lot, read some books, tell me about Vaalenia. What scrolls you got hidden there in all time? You know exactly? Yeah, So Amon's like totally is just lost. But that brings us to the balcony scene and Helena. She was just absolutely brilliant. She is so cool. She just didn't faulter at all of your thoughts on the scene. She really put him in his place. I feel she's the only person. It's the only time that we've seen him be put in his place during this period, even when he was a little boy. I don't I don't recall anyone else putting him in his place like she does in this scene. And he goes into the scene thinking that he can be manipulative and have another chat with her because obviously the previous attempt didn't work Mummy stepped in. He thought, right, I've lost my shit. I'm going to approach this from a different way, and she just shut him down. And he's like, well, I could kill you, and she's like, but it wouldn't change anything. He believes her. It does, doesn't he Yeah, he does. Do I hear the scene? Yeah, let's do it, sister. You shed the same blood he and I I know you wish no harm to anyone, But in a time like this, when the good of the realm of bins are. I never noticed how windy it was on the balcony that night. Our mother is not a dragon rider. She cannot understand that you and I have a true o cal to heat. He's absolutely trying to manipulate her. There, come with me, we will lay wasted Damon in his army. Let her enemy see eye will answer. Outrage is outrage. And if I refuse, will you ban me as you did? Agone busted? That is a lie. I saw it. He just doesn't want what to do here. You banned him and you let him. Fall, which says treason. Now what you did was treason. Change again, Hm, he's yet to say victory. He sits on a wooden throne. And you you'll be Dad. Spoiler alert, swallowed up in a godzye and you are never scene again. I could have you kilt. It wouldn't chime chinna thing. Interesting talk about dropping spoilers the way, Yeah, like that's massive. I genuinely think that the Godsie thing is such a pivotal marker amongst the people that know the story that they reckon. It's just it's out there. It's just out there that this god side things happening, and even the people that haven't read it from have heard about it. So let's just get that out of the way. Now. I'm not going to say what that is in detail because this is not a spoiler spoiler stream, but yeah, we will be having one of those so we can talk about it then. Yeah. But yeah, that was intense. It was. And I mean when you watch the scene visually, I don't recall another time where Amond has had where he's teared up. No, he's always so clear eyed and so angry, well one eyed. I think maybe that time in the brothel. I don't think he was teary. It was teary, but he was, and when he. Was stone faced, mate, But this, this is really shaking him. Oh yeah. First of all, she told him what he did. Yeah, she didn't say agon told me I saw it. Yeah, all these weird fucking things that she says. This is the moment where he's like, ah, this is creepy. So yeah, exactly. First of all, he tell she tells him something that he did that nobody else knows, it's just between him and egg On and makes it very clear if she she knows that she saw it, and then she drops how he's going to die. So of course she's going to be absolutely bricking it because wait a minute, when I'm worriedy freaked out with the fact that she just said about what I did to egg On, and now like she's telling me how I'm going to die, and and that's terrifying. It's such a great way to turn things around on him. He's he's come into it thinking he's going to be all softly spoken and manipulate, soft, poor gentle Helena, and no, she turns it around on him, and he's the one that's fearful. He is poor. And then that I. Love the way she plays it though, she's like and she lets them say his part, She lets him, you know, give you softly, softly pitch and every then let's have said, it's like, and what if I don't, are you going to burn me like you burned egg On? And she was so she's the exact same calm voice back with them. It was brilliant. I loved it so good. But he's he's a dick. It's just I honestly thought that they're like he was going to push off that balcony at one point. I think he's too freaked out. Yeah, I think he thought about it. And it's really cool that she's She's obviously lived it so many times. She's already lived this scene. So that calmness is just I've already been here, I've had time to process this. There's no there's no emotion that comes from in the moment. There's no rage, there's no fear. There's not even any sort of enjoyment from it. It's just this is what this is. I know, and I'm telling you that I know. So I know you don't kill me on this balcony. Mm hmm. So what you go about it? None? Not back off, bitch? Oh definitely. So any of the sucks Nope? Okay, So that, then, I suppose, brings us to na Yeah. So yeah, Rania, and that brings us to our one and only proper dragon scene of the episode. The others weren't, which scene, says Flickers. Of View from Afar. Yeah, we will introduce five new dragons this season, but we will only let you see two of them for five seconds. Please make sure you're wearing spectacles at the time. Yes, anyway, to the real dragon stuff and not saying that that wasn't cool though it was. We will get to that. So, yeah, so this moment Rania and Adam is Adam, she takes with him with her, isn't it. Did we talk about that as a choice? No, I don't think we did. So what what do you think of that choice? You know, the choice to take Adam? Do you think that was the wise choice, the only choice? I think it was maybe the only choice because Jase was really the only one to leave in charge of the dragon seeds, and they have to. They can't both be in the same place unless it's Dragonstone. Yeah, like he's he's our son, and she trusts him. He's her air. Yeah, more importantly because he's her air. They can't go out in the field together because if they're both lost, their lost for good. But yeah, to take Adam, if we could have took she could have took. Bayla, she could have Baila. But actually would have been a good choice. Is Damon's daughter. It would have been a little bit of it have still got. You know, Sea Smoke more imposing though. Sea Smoke's definitely more imposing than Moon Dancer Munda. Sea Smoke's battle hardened. And Adams came across well, and she, you. Know, I suppose like Bayla would would taking Bayla might you know, appeal to Damon's sort of fatherly instincts, and you know it might be a way of Needa, go and remember your daughter still with me. But to take Adam would a nerve them because who is this guy? You know, Damon knows nothing about any of these dragon seeds, and for Nida to come and with with a stranger and another dragon would unsettle them if they're hers treachery afoot, which is what she's been warned off. She's been warned of treachery. She's coming there under the the idea that Deamon's up to ship. I wonder if it's also a protecting her family thing as well, because she is still quite motherly. Yes, so yeah, keeping the kids safe, yeah, probably keeping her her kids. What will help, she deems is her family, absolutely. And I really like the fact that you know, Bayla falls into that category for her. It's not who is not just her future daughter in love of the future queen. Yeah, as well, another way to look at it, she's also. What I mean, her her step daughter niece, no cousin, yes, oh god, yeah, yeah, what was Renice? Was her like was second becausin half cousin, So that would make her like her second cousin once removed or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, step step door, step niece, step door because of Damon. Yeah, step niece because of Lenor future. Will be her Yeah, so her cousin also because Demon's her uncle. Yes, and daughter in law, oh my goodness. Future daughter in law. Yes, they are connected in many ways. You need to go in the recovery position. Oh that's so funny. So as a choice taken Adam, I suppose, Yeah, it's definitely if you if you feel. A foot and you wanted to show a force, Adam's theod play. Adam is the good play. I mean, would have been a great show of force. But but she can't trust you yet, and he's only been riding for a day. Yeah, so not not the greatest choice, mind you. Adam's only been riding for a day as well. It was you know, a day or two. Yeah. I think they had a moment on the beach. They did. There was a connection, and he gives off very loyal vibes. Absolutely, he bent the knee. Yeah, those that those dragon seeds showed up trying to claim what they could get. Yeah, with his cea, Smoke chose adam. Yeah, so therefore the dragon trust them. Yeah that yeah, that's it, isn't it. That's the key. I think the dragon trust them and she trusts that dragon. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that. I think we figured it out. We have absolutely figured it out. So what does that give us? So this is the point where she comes in and we have the cool Simon Strong bit, we have the cool side ax bits, like everybody shoot your fucking hole. Yes, I love this scene. It was all kinds of brilliant. You know. Rinia what comes in and at first no one notices she's there. It's like she just comes in with Sir Simon Strong, doesn't. She meets her outside and he's like, you. Know, and it's a lovely Simon Strong way. Yes, so it's yes, I must admit I had reason to bear. So Riania lands and Sea Smoke is left circling above, which is also a clever move. The keeping an eye out for incoming vegars. In coming Nana's yes, Nana in a bad mood. So that was always in a bad mood. Yeah, absolutely, but so a great booth leaving see smoke up there, which lands. She speaks to Simon Strong outside and he doesn't say much, but again it's just his whole body language's mannerisms. He's just absolutely brilliant. I love him. Yeah, he's fab But it's like, yes, I fear there's it was much worse than I first anticipade or something along those lines. Come see for yourself. Yes, absolutely, and it's like, what is it? You're going to shore like a huge Like when you get in there, there's nothing really to see except Damon has a massive army, but she's already seen that from the gap. But he was not expecting what they walked into. Then, no one was expecting that, especially in at Alfred Broom. Have we talked about Alfred Broom? Yes, we have, cause he needs a hero, he needs a hero, Yes, he does. So so she comes in and nobody's no one's really noticed that she's there. No, no, not at all. And then of her six is like must have been like you must have sensed this or something. It's like, I'm gonna have to make an entrance here, rude, the queen is here in the house, So they certainly got it, certainly had the desired effect. I was like, what the hell cool scene in the making off by the way they had like like a fifth of the actual actors there. It was all, you know, more cgied. They made the room look at bigger. They just have this little set in the middle and then cgi the rest of it to make likely there's way more people there than there actually was. If onely we could do that in real life. Yes, absolutely, my gigs would have been so much more populated. There would have been a crowd at those gigs. You could have filled the jam house floor. So this scene was just all kinds of brilliant. Yeah, it was absolutely great. So I love it as when of course Damon's like, oh dragon in the house, Rinda's here, And I love the way, you know, the crowd parks for Damon as he walks through, He's like king of the castle. Yeah, very much. So I totally got warning the wife vibes. And although it was you know, there was so many people there, there was only the two of them in the room during their the conversation that they had. Yeah, yeah, definitely, so we have when rini Us comes in and He's like, look what I've done here, you know, look at She's like, you've done well, and he's like, they're all sworn to me. And I love the way she's steps back, raises her voice and it's like into whom are you sworn? Answer for everyone? Please? Yeah, just whispering in the corner here. Loved it. Loved it. What were your thoughts on this scene? The face acting was great between the two of them, because remember they haven't seen each other for a wee. While now no, and it was on right in the back of the back fight. Yeah, and it's acted very well. There's Matt Smith and that cheeky face, you know. Yeah, but it's acted so well because he when he walks up to her, there is love. In his eyes. Yeah. And although she's pissed off, there's love in her face as well. You know, there's it's something unspoken between them that doesn't matter how bad it gets. Yeah, and don't forget he's been a wicked fucker. Like he's been awful. He's like chalked and everything. He's been a dick. Oh, he absolutely has. He's choked her and tried to almost ruined her as a teenager. I mean even just in in their marriage recently for them, like he's undermined her. Yeah, it's been awful to her. Yeah, definitely. But I love this part. And this is where we go into the High Valarian and he says to her, the world is not what we thought it was. The war is just the beginning. Winter is coming. Yeah, he said it with darkness and doom. Oh, she says, you sound like my father. He says, I saw it. I saw that we cannot withstand it, and yet somehow we must. I love those lines. They are so well written, just oh lovely, and it's just lovely hearing it in the High Valarium as well. And then of course he breaks into the English again. It's the realm's only hope as a leader who can unite it? And my brother chose you, And then the best lines of the season so far. Loved it. You are the true Queen Rinira. I am meant to serve you in all of those with me until death or the end of our story. And as always, Simon's face is absolutely receless, and. Alfred Broom the biggest gulp when he bends the knee. It's so funny. Alfred Broom is absolutely hilarious, and the scene his face is just priceless, but so is Simon Strong's. I loved it that moment and he just where He's like, Damon's given the you know, the big epic speech and all that, and he's like, this is so cool. I'm so glad I sent that raven brilliant. I always missed the good stuff. But then we'll go back into the high valarium again, get leave me again at your peril, And I love his answer. It's like I could not. I have tried my queen lovely. And then I've got Alfred exits stage left, and of course this is when Damon gives his epic we fight for our queen speech. It is absolutely brilliant. Do you know what? I know? I put it at the beginning of the episode, but I think we should hear it again. You are the true queen when you're first off, I name protector of the realm. I am meant to serve you and all of these with me until death. Well the end of our story, and everyone kneels. I love it. They might have to cut this, but we may have played it'll be a bit too much rama. JAWADDI There no never I I meant for YouTube. Early quhas. Mouious leave me again at your petal love it? Ok, on the war, I could not. My queen so good. For every one of us who falls a hundred of them, that will be no my sy with f for a queen. Got all kinds of goosebumps there. I love it well, I mean, and in some respects Alfred Broom was right. They needed a king to rally all those men together and then tell them we're fighting for our queen. You're so right? Yeah, I like that definitely. That's what happened there. Rania might have struggled to raise that kind of an army herself, and Damon did a great job. He went, I'm not had unorthodox methods. The methods here there was something about the methods that was trying to get out. Yes, but yes, his methods are questionable at the very least, but he succeeded in what he set out to do and what they needed. Results. Absolutely results then justify the means. Maybe no, no, not in the world or worst of us, I'm afraid. Yeah. So this is where we're at. Damon's reads this army for Rania, and it is an impressive army. Yep, we've got the Valarian fleet, yes, seven dragons now, and things are looking good for Team Black. But that brings us to our closing scenes. Unless you have anything else to say on no damon stuff. No right, So closing scenes? What have I got here? So, of course the main closing scene would be Alison and Rania, which is what I'm saying. Things look great for Team Black at the moment. So Allison's desperate and shows up at Dragonstone to plead with Ruanera. What do you think of that? What did you think of this whole the choice to put it in in the first place, because obviously it's not in the book. Well, my opinion is kind of unfounded, to be honest. It's it's a bit unfair. Obviously we had writer strikes, we had other financial things going on. Yeah, but as a viewer, I just felt it was a bit well, how was Allison just walked in there? Yeah, you know, it was a bit hard to swallow the way that she just walked in and Rnera was woken up and you've got a visitor sort of thing. Surely it's the same deal Ranera going to King's Landing as it is Allison coming to Dragon Storre. Yeah, so that kind of made me go, that's very annoying. I have to say. They both looked stunning in blue, they did, And I like that because that was a throwback to young Allison, who wore blue quite often. Yeah, and it was a color that looks very lovely on her. But yeah, I think we're just I think this is one of those moments suspend disbelief, right and good chat though, Oh my god, the dialogue was stunning. It was so well written. If this is what the writers were given storyboard wise and said this is what we want to happen, then Claire House has written again it was clear, isn't it? Yeah? It was clear? Clear again has written the most stunning dialogue this scene. And like, if we put aside the fact that we're like a wee bit, like why did it happen in the first place? How did it happen in the place, you know, we suspend our disbelief and just judge it for what it is. It was wonderfully written, and it was wonderfully acted as well. Yeah, and it was really nice to see the girls together again having another one of those really tense conversations. Yes, yeah, definitely, because they. Are the deciders, those girls, they really are. They have certainly chose to focus in on these two as your central characters. Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of supporting players there a, but Alison and Rena are, for all intents and purposes, the main focal point of this show. And it was they haven't been together all season, well except for that one we've seen at the sept So it was good to see them back together again and having this talk. And it was wonderfully written, it really was, and I love that it was like it was written like a three part like a three act play. Yeah. The first part was about the past and the mistakes they made and who they were and et cetera. And then the second part being about well, this is where we're at now, and we'll just you know, discussing a bit to and fro about you know, the state of things at this time. And then it's like, well, where do we go next? What's the next one? So it was very past present in future, and it was the conversation was split up in a three beautiful little act and I loved it as it was eight and a half minutes long though I didn't clip the whole scene as such, but shall we listen to a couple of bits of it? Yeah? Then I think mistaken really. In what, oh dear, I was raised to believe there was a notice of things, that there was security in following the past. I doubt for us. I resented due, I think, for caring so little for any of it, for knowing what you wanted. I did not know what I wanted, and you only what was expected of me. Why have you come here because I lost my way, or rather it was taken from me? Although I put my faith in my my husband, and my father and my lover. Incorruptible Queen Sullies herself with the lover. Did not judge me for what you yourself have done. Your father died, I took comfort with another. I too have desires. But you alone made virtue your banner. And I clung to that. That's the line in defiance of you. I think you so disdained it. Mm hmmm, so yeah, that was the line you alone made virtue your banner. What do you think, Alison here at this point? It's just everything you wanted her to say ages ago, isn't it. I'm with Rania all the way, like why the fuck are you here? You just woke me up out of my bed to tell me ship, that's evident, Like why the fuck are you here? Go away? What do you fucking want? Exactly? Yeah, it's quite good play a little. I have been alone of late. I walked outside the walls the city, and I felt a weight lifted from me. How lovely for you, I thought for the first time what I would choose, if not for the duty I put before all else? Shall you cast your son down and rule alone? No? I do not wish to rule. I wish to live, to be free of all this endless plotting and striving. The Crown will pursue war and victory at any cost, But as for me, I would take my daughter and her child and leave it all behind. It's too late, Alison, she said the same to her. You yourself, blood has. Been shed, cities burned, armies much and you wish to wash your hands of what you yourself set. In motion for a Arroicans are blaming me as if you would not have been challenged. Regardless, did not your hand bring it forward like a midwife? I did? Only wants to thought your father wanted. I'll go there, leave us behind, as you say, do what you want. Yeah, like wonder in the wilderness, what has it got to do with me? Yeah? Did you come here thinking you would be absolved? I think she did. Yeah, Yeah, absolutely think she did go there looking for some sort of absolution. She's like some pist X that forhoned you at three o'clock in the morning, wanting to apologize for all the shite stuff they've done. You fuck off, mate, why are you here? Goodbye? Oh I got one of the texts not that long ago, but for the guy it was his brother. It's like, I'm so sorry my brother was a dick to you. You are the weakest link. Goodbye. But yeah, I think what I came to you and the scept this is what she said. I came to you this and try to stop this before it became this, and you were like, it's too late now, and now you want to come to me when it really, seriously is seriously too late. She's just had this massive thing with them, and she's seeing the armies. Yeah, like massive battles have already happened, the dragons are involved. You can't pull that back. And she's right No, you can't take your daughter and just turn your back now and run away. After you set that ship in motion. You did that, so no, fuck off, go then go go the wood. Doesn't the care that you want to just go wandering the wilderness? So good? Yeah, yeah, definitely right. Let's hear a little bit more. He never stopped loving your mother, you know. It was very fond of me and I of him. But she was a vision that sustained him even after she herself had slipped from his grasp. It was his love for her that kept him resolute and his choice of her. And yet you believe he wavered at the end. Why have you come here? Amy will soon fly to join Coal in the river hands. When he's gone, Helena as queen will be the crown's authority. If you come then to King's landing, I will see to it that our guards throw down their arms. We will open the gates. We will shed no blood. He will enter as a conqueror. Well, already you have the stronger hand once you take the throne. This senseless war must end. What have egg gone? Oh, elephant in the room. Yeah, he's broken beyond recognition. He lies in the dark in pain, and terror. He has many faults, but he still heeds his mother. I believe I can prevail upon him to bend the knee. Still you defend him. Still you imagine you can have all you want without paying your higher price, A price I have no choice but to pay is to set things right. If I am to take the throne, I must put an end to the opposition. I must take egg On's head, and I have to do it for all to see. You know this, however you may try to evade it. You know this. She was right? Yeah, absolutely, And at this point the face acting is amazing. Yeah. I love the choose, the thoughts all washing over Alison's face and need a feeling for her so much as a mother. And in that moment having to make that choice. Will you shrink from what you sit out to do? Will you see it through? Make your sacrifice? Yeah? If you want peace, it has to happen. Yeah. A son for a son, Oh, and there it is a son for a son. Yeah. What it really should have been in the first place, little grandson's That was just that was not right. But no, and Alison never brings that up. No, despite the fact that she knows Rita didn't do it already covered clear covered that at the set. This this choice, this choice that Alison has to make there and just watching her go through it, and Raniera watching her go through it, it's so hard your thoughts, Emma, no echo what you've said. It's it's really hard for her. However, like she said, she's been brought up to believe that duty, yeah, comes first, and she needs to stop this war. And if it means that she has to sacrifice one of the things she loves most in the world for the sake of the realm, yeah, and you know it's a hard choice. But oh, dear lord, he's half dead anyway, you know, was her son in the way that he was, and he was and healthy and his his whole life ahead of him. Maybe the choice is made slightly easier for her because he may still yet die anyway, and in her eyes at the moment, so maybe it's a mercy. Yeah. But the elephant in the room is that nobody mentions is the fact that it's not just Eggon, it's Aimon and the other one's name is escaping me right now, help me, help me out, Dren. Also, because you take out Eggon and they're just going to try and put Amond on the throne in his place, and then thereon after him. That's the thing Rinia's not saying. Yeah, but if she can get her to make that one sacrifice because Egon will be there in Kingsland and when she arrives, so he needs to get rid of him and to secure her claim on that thrown at that point. But there will be opposition still and then she'll have to take the other two out as well. Head his head is off, my bum's on the throne. What you're gonna do about it? Yeah, it's easier for the small folk to digest. Yes, absolutely definitely. So let's get a little bit more so. I think Alison just nods her response here, there's there's no fable response. Well, let's play the last part of the scene. You much change, Let's just be done with this please, And what do I do with you now? Beful it's sniffing going on. He let me go, So do what I promised, and you fly to the Red Keep in three days time and you take your throne. Oh, you take me for a liar. I haven't had the weapon, not on that. My life itself is forfeiti cast myself on the mercy of a friend who once loved me. History will pin you a villain. Yeah, well but you two here, yeah. Cold queen grasping for power and then defeated. Let them think what they must. I am at last myself. It was no ambision greater than to walk where I please and to breathe the open air? Did I unremarked or unnoticed? Be free? You speakeruse of from a distant dream? Come with me. My part is here, Whether I will or no, I just decided for me long ago. Actually sad, it is is. And she understands that way better now than when she first accepted it, if that makes sense. Yeah, she accepted it before she really understood it. I like the little book reference though, that history will paint you a villain, Yeah, called queen because in the book Alison is a cold bitch. Yeah. Yeah, So I like that little nod. Yeah. And how history is written by the people that that don't know you. They don't know anything about you. They just know what you did. Yeah, what they in the way that they perceive it. Yeah, especially the masters, Yeah, especially talking about women. Yeah. If these were two men fighting in the same way, would they be painted. Oh absolutely, not the be heroes. They want to be heroes on both sides, but the history books have painted both these women as cold and power grabbing and borderlining evil. You could say the same for Elizabeth the First and Mary, Queen of Scotts. Oh absolutely. I've seen very many, many different versions of Mary. The general consensus was though, that she was she was a slut. Yeah, that's the way history was. A French Catholic slut, and Elizabeth was a barren, mean women. And actually, no, neither of those women when they were girls. Yeah, no, no, I don't believe that. I don't believe the way history's painted them. No, history pitied them against each other because one represented Protestant monarchy and the other one a Catholic. And you know, Elizabeth was considered a bastard in many his eyes, and Maye was of pure descent, but at the same time, she represented the old ways of Catholicism and England had moved on to a Protestant resume at that point. So they were pitied against each other by the men around them. And I feel like there's a little bit of that, and Alison and Ronia here as well. Definitely, it's just that he doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. It often rhymes. So yeah, great scenes. Loved it so well written. Just it was a great intimate moment to end the show on Ye, I feel one last chance for you know, you saw Runia try to have her one last moment to put it right at the beginning of the season before things going too far, and yeah, Alison maybe should have listened to her then, but while she still had a little bit of power. But here we are, Alison's reached the same point in a different way. Though in a different way, it's it's more a piece that she's found within herself. I don't think we need it was a piece when she went searching to put everything to stop, but Allison's found this piece within herself that you know, life is way more important than any of this bullshit. Just living my daughter, living my daughter, finding some sort of happiness again maybe would be really nice. I think Helena is her main motivation and everything she does now is just making sure Helena is all right. And you know that little spark of interest she had about. There on So are closing scenes? Yes, did you have any other thoughts on Alison Renna before we move on. No, I think I've covered it excellent. So that brings us to our final final scenes that Armies on the move montage, and I thought it was great. So it's all cut with Alison do that's really really slow out of dragon Stone looking absolutely stunning. Yeah, and very very pensive. But yeah, it cuts with the dragon Seeds getting fired for their armor, looking rather smug. However, Adam has got the best armor. Yes, yes, definitely, he was looking rather dapper, Clinton Liverly, Yes, please, definitely. So then we see rain of roughing it more running yep, yep. Then and I blinking you miss it, Emma reached for the wine and totally missed the rewatch there, and we saw Tasarion, the what was her nickname, the Blue Queen or something? Yes, is that right? Yeah? I think it's a Blue Queen. But stunning looking dragon for the four or five seconds. We saw it, or the millisecond that I saw it. Yeah, yeah, totally teasing us with you know, five new dragons with like last episode, last five minutes. So yeah, that was cool. We've got the High Tower Army there moving at the place, so they're traveling up from old Town. Then we see the Starks at the Twins crossing the Green Fork, and the shot was amazing, amazing, It is so cool. The camera work here was stunning. Go watch the behind the scenes guys. It was really really really cool. This was called the Impossible Shot. Yeah, and it was stunning camera work. But it was great to see Stark banners. It was so cool. So they're crossing the Green Fork and we have the Lanister Army at the Red Fork near Harron Hall. They are the closest to Harron Hall at the moment. The Stark Army is probably double that distance away. The landscape here is so cool. I got my maps out and everything to look at this, and you know it's scott to be cgied in because it's so perfect that the curve of that river and the positioning of Harden Hall down down the trident where the Red Fork meets. Yeah, it's just so cool. It's absolutely great. Just I had the maps out for this whole scene trying to figure out where everybody was. Then we've got Damon surveying his army. We're looking rather pleased with himself. So cool. More Alison slow walking, and then we have stormy weather on the Narrow Sea with Thailand and the triarchy looking rather imposing, followed by Alan and Corlis headed out to Corliss's ship, The Queen Who Never was Beautiful ship, beautiful ship, terrible name yep. A lot of tension on that boat. Alan's looking badass, yes he is. His armor is amazing. Yeah, it looks so good, and you know, second in command looks Yeah. Definitely would have liked to have seen a wider shot of the Vallarian fleet. Yeah, that would have been quite quite fitting in the scene. But nonetheless we get the idea. But maybe they're saving it. Maybe they're saving showing us the sheer force off the Vallarian fleets. That'd be cool. And then, of course we have another dragon moment, Rain a fine sheep stealer who is funnily enough eating sheep that it has to be sheep stealer. There's there's no other choice. Absolutely, it's scoffing sheep and it looks like sheep sealer does a massive burp. Kind of. Love that theme. Yeah, she comes over the sort of crest of the hill spots sheep stealer eyes almost pop out her head and her eyebrows almost leave her forehead, and then it's like the shot goes back and it looks like sheep stealer does the biggest burp. Awesome, pardon you. Yep, definitely. And then the scene that broke the Internet for a few days afterwards, Auto high Tower in a cage. Yeah, we have blown this wide open fox for those of you who did not pick up on it and are wondering what happened to her? Oh, hi to there are plenty of videos out there. Watched a couple of them. Hi, it's you want to hear. In post production, Emily and I have decided to edit out this section and release this information to you as our first YouTube video. Check out our channel The Unreal Hour on YouTube and look out for this reveal. Don't forget to subscribe while you're there. Well, it's all on a cage in moralis In looking pensive, and then we see Laris and Egging on the run who are heading south. By the way, they are heading south, which says darn, there's three places they maybe go in. They're either heading in towards Old Town, which makes no sense if they've got a penthoss. It's the other side of Western US and it's definitely the long way around, and it's heading towards people they think they want to avoid. Yeah, they also will be heading towards the High Tower Army for sure. And the Dorns a bit far. Dorn is a bit far and abou treacherous. They'd have to go through the Red Mountain pass. There's only the Dornish really know their way around there, which is why nobody really conquered Dorn. That the armies never really make it through the Red Mountains. So then what auption are they left. With storms End? From Storm's End is practically a straight shot across to Penthoffs a little bit north, but you know it's it's a straight shot over and it'd be the quickest. Way, but they to try and avoid the triarchy. They will absolutely have to avoid the triarchy who will be coming from further south of Pentoss going diagonally across. Is smart enough to know by now that that's happening that the blockade is no longer. Yes, or well not, the blockade's still in place. Well, it will be no longer. Yeah, And by the time he tried where he's going, the blockade should have been. So the blockade is really only for the blockade is just blockings Landing that that bay area in order to go. From storms End to Pentos. Are they far enough down that they're going to miss whatever battle ensues in order to disperse the block. The problem is that they might bump into the Triarchy crossing their path, So. He just has to time it well that the Triarchy are involved in dispersing the block. Already, or they get across before them, but they're already on their way, so they like, once the Triarchy are already there and fight in they can just shoot straight across and no one's going to not as them. That maybe a couple of Triarchy stragglers and they're probably going to go on some sort of merchant ship anyway. Yeah, so yes, they they have. I would say storms End is that is probably where they're head. That's great and like knowing your way around the map, like right, okay, I can. And it literally was just watching the scene from where kings Landing was positioned and the way that they were heading. They were heading south. Yeah, there's no other explanation. And then it cuts to those absolute final scenes of Alison and Rinda. Again, we've got that stunning shot of Alison looking out over the cliffs, the sunrise, and the Rania has the same view, but from a balcony. Do you know what's really cool about that scene? So the way that we see Rania is through that really awesome what we calling it scroll case? Yes, right, So we see Rania through this little triangle. No, it's a diamond. That's a diamond shape, So we see her through that. That's how we're looking at her. And we see Alison looking out just on a landscape. Yeah. So Alison desires freedom, yeah, Rania desires being in the middle of all that shit. Yeah. And it's a really cool visual representation of where the two women are and what they want for their future, which I thought was a thought full way to end it. That was really cool. I never thought of it like that. I like that. I hope that's what they intended, but that's what I took from it. Ranida's boxed in, Yeah, Rianida's you know, can find she's stuck in her destiny. Yeah, and Alison just has this quarity and wants freedom. Yeah. Interesting. I like it, very observant, love it. So that's it. I drink wine and I know things. At five hours and ten minutes, we have finally covered the bulk of the episode. We've covered our plot points, we have RIP to discuss and five hours hours Emma five bloody. Wow. So we're splitting this into parts now, guys this, Yeah, we can't. Do that to you. Yeah, during one of those many many breaks that you have in A five, we have decided that, Yeah, we're going to have to split this so that we have RIP some fun facts. Oh my god, my notes say that IMDb facts made me actually rage. Need to find better ones. I don't know about our listeners, but I wouldn't I wouldn't be disappointed in us if we left out fun facts, for we. Had loads of fun facts scarred throughout the whole episode. We did, and I think it's if there's anything else that we would like to share, we can do that in the next episode. Oh yeah, definitely in our what's the word I'm looking. For on our debrief? Yeah? Yes, yeah, And that brings us to r RIP section. There was no deaths in episode eight, but in episode seven we said goodbye to thirty or so targarian bastards. Oh oh so we did, Yes, we did. I feel like the least that the dragon Keepers could have done before they left this gave them all some suicide knife or a bucket of war. There was a lot of puddles, wet puddles, Let's be honest. Those puddles were warm, wet warm. Yeahs, peace, Preston piece you put bastards. And then we said goodbye to William Blackwood. Oh well he was a count anyway, wasn't he. I was starting to like him to until that point that he was covering across as quite noble, but they just could not get past his hatred for the Brackens. It ruled every choice he made. He literally was given an engine to come mile and he did so, carrying Turgarian banners, and he was warned there are things that the crown. Must not be seen to do. So in peace, William Blackwood. Yes, rest in peace, Willem what had tapped? Okay, so now would be time for fun facts. But the IMDb fun facts made me rage. And I think this is littered with loads of fun facts already. Yeah, so moving on. If you want to know why the IMDb facts made me rage, read them and then refer back to my earlier rant about the Night King. It'll all makes sense. And that's just one of them. But they're flaws in them, all inaccurate and not entertaining. Not fun those facts, No, they were not. No, they're not fun, which I think they could just be written by anybody though. That's sort of the impression I'm getting. There's a week ad button and you can just add your own fund. Fat Yeah, one hundred percent. I think some of them have been added by people that have never read the books or seen the show. Yeah, definitely just made it up. There's a lot of YouTube conic made by people like that too, though, so true. Anyway, that's a fun fact. That is a fun fact. So that brings us to listener feedback. It's our first listener feedback session. I'm so looking forward to this. They are short and sweet going forward, Please elaborate more, people. We love your comments, but we want to hear the nitty gritty about what you really think. You know the details. So first up, we've got Jerry A. Hastain. I am so sorry if there's a risk pronunciation there. This is what happens when I drink wine. Love both seasons, great cast. The only thing I hated was they killed off the queen who never was She was one of my favorites. Jerry, I wholeheartedly agree with that. That's a great comment. Definitely. That was one of the saddest points of this season for me. It was, and your emojis are spot on. Within this comment, we've got a broken heart and a cry and FACEINGOK. Yeah, we appreciate you, Jerry, Thank you so much for your comment. Excellent. I have to agree as well. Rady is absolutely my favorite. You've got a clip in every single episode and then the even the following one where she was delivering her message through her granddaughter. Yeah. So yeah, definitely, Rainy's will definitely be missed and she will go down as one of my all time favorite Ice and Fire characters. Yeah, me too. Our next comment is from Monique Smith, who just says amazing with a clapping memo j and excellent. Good to hear someone being positive. Absolutely, absolutely just amazing everyone. You know, I've heard plenty of people say it was good, but everyone's got a critique. Yeah, so it's nice to just hear someone say I enjoyed this. Yeah, excellent. Next, so we have Diane r None. I like the show. I was disappointed, but went along with the character development of Demon having him find himself at Harron Hall castrated The Rogue Prince on a scale of one to ten, ten being the best Irate Season two nine point zero. H Yeah, that's absolutely valid. I would go with the score rating. Well, I'll agree with that score rating straight away. I wasn't disappointed in the character development, if I'm honest, and I thought Matt Smith did it absolute justice. Yeah, I thought he was great. He did. He played the role that was written for him absolutely fantastically. And if you've got an actor like Matt Smith who really does nothing in this point of the story, I think it was great too. I absolutely get the point of it having castrated the Rogue Prince though, because it was I get that. Yeah, but we pet no, it was a bit mope and like it was a bit yeah, yeah, that's yeah. He was. He was very lost, He was very down and depressed, and there was there was very little rogue about him. Yeah, I think that was it. We always go back to that little smirk. Yeah, it didn't, it was gone. I'll see. It was there at the beginning a little bit. It was there at that table when Rinia realized that it was him that did it. Ye. But the funniest part about that scene actually is when Rainy's she realized a few minutes before she clocked it, and she's like, it was you and she's just waiting for Nia to catch up. Penny to drop. But yeah, from that moment to the end, that Damon's smirk swagger was missing. It was And I'll give that, but I did. I think he did a great job with the arc that he was given. I think it. I liked the overall arc. There was a bit in the middle of felt was unnecessary. We know what, but you think it is unnecessary. We all, we don't have to talk about it. It was just the right But I don't think they had to do it. I think that that one there. But do you know what, I didn't like that episode overall. That episode overall was just a bit me. Yeah, and I don't I don't think you know. I'm not I'm not a writer myself. I don't know what it takes to sit down and work like these guys do. And I'm sure the person that wrote that episode probably has some good writing chops to be able to get a job on the House of the Dragon. But I felt it was the weakest written of them all. I feel like it was kind of true to the books in a sense that, you know, it is very chop chop chop chop to each sort of fact within history, and the episode itself was very this, this, this, this, this, you know, it just kind of that's the way. It's lots of lots of s. Yeah, and it's one of those ones where I think we got a little scene. From everybody, whereas we don't always we always get that focuses in on a few characters, yes, and then you might not see a character for an episode or barely see them. But I felt like he were trying to get a little bit of everybody's aftermath after Rooke's rest. I suppose that's what I was trying to do. But Damon's dreaming that one, I just not only did the dream just creep me out, I also just felt it was maybe a bit much. But I loved the arc of waiting. Was castrated in that nosion. No, but I like the overall arc of who he was when he was having visions of Milly compared to who he had become by the time he was having the visions of the series. Yes, and then one step further of who he was when he had his proper Wearwood vision. So overall, I like Damon's arc, but yes, episode five made me. I remember sitting there watching episode five, gone, this has going on a bit long nowway, I think we've had enough of Damon's dreams now. But then the. Following week I really enjoyed the Paddy one, and the week after more Paddy. So yeah, and I'm going to guess from from Diane's comment that maybe she feels the same the same way. Yeah, you know, I mean it's it's a good score. However, Yeah, like I totally get that she's. She's she scored a night nine point zero for those series overall, but that one thing just kind of niggled her. And I would say, if there was anything and that niggled me. Was yeah, same that. I'm in agreement. Yeah, I can't argue with that. Thanks for that comment, Diane. That was a great talking point. Absolutely, is it my turn? It is? So our next comment is from Sabrina Barth, who says I just love this series with two sunglassy emojs and a thumbs up. What do we call that sunglassy emoj? That's the cool guy, It's cool, cool, cool thumbs up. Yeah, there we go. I just love this series, so I'm taken from that. Sabrena is just a fan. She is just a fan of this world, in this universe, and she's going to take whatever they throw it are and take the best from it, Yeah, which is what we try to do. We do. Yeah, I mean even. Things like episode five. I mean it wasn't the greatest episode. I would say it was the weakest of the series to date, not just this season, but we still found some nuggets of good in there too. I think when you sit and you know, you really get into a conversation about whether that be with your friends around the war Killer or whether you're listening to a podcast or making a podcast, I think you you start to appreciate things that you might not have just from one watch. Yeah. It's also the thing that I keep going back to. There's nothing else like this on TV. No. So if you're a fan of this genre, yeah, then just embrace it. There's going to the bits that people are going to that maybe weren't your favorite. Yeah, But in all honesty, it's really really great watching. It's a great world to be in. It's so fun to watch. Yes, and I like that you're saying this, you being the biggest Lord of the Rings fan that I know, while Rings of Power is on and you're saying there's nothing like this on TV. No, because this is very different from the Tolkien's world. Tolkien's world is lovely and full of light and mythology and relationship. It was starting with a rat battle man a rat battle. But yeah, like George's world is death and disaster and betrayal and war, and I mean there is that in Token's world, but not there's not incest and child murder and the horrific things that are in George's world. No, I think, very very different. I think. The Lord of the Rings is written from a perspective of that is both good and the evil in the world, but we're rooting for good and good will overcome, yes, whereas Georgie's characters are very gray. Right, Damon is both equal parts dark and light. Terrian is equal parts dark and light. For used book readers out there, you know what I'm talking about. Book Terrian is dark. But again, even we find our So there's a little fly I want to get it. Yaggy, Emma, go Yaggy that I've lost him. You got the way. I think he's running scared. Yeah, what I was saying, so light and dark? Yeah, light dark. Definitely. We find ourselves rooting for this little eleven year old girl throughout the series of Game of Thrones who's actually so traumatized she's become a serial killer. Yeah, and yet she's one of she's a fan favorite. Yeah. So yeah, it's a much darker world. It is, definitely. So Next we're on to Tim Noble thought it was a bit limp, frankly, a waste of time. Shame. I had high hopes for it. Is that like shame? Shame? I'm not sure, and I'm not sure what his emoji is a lot of any glasses on? Is this the shrug and shoulders. Guy, shruggy guy? Yeah, I think it's the shruggy emoji. Tim. That's that's really disappointing. That's the way you felt a waste of time. That's it's really sad that you've I don't know if you've read the books. I don't know if you're a fan, or if it's just something that you've popped on and thought, oh, this might be good. It's there's a lot of following and you've been disappointed it might not be your genre. Yeah, that's that's sad that you feel that way, And it would be really cool to have some more some more information. So guys, if you have a comment like this, it would be great if you could give us a bit more, you know, so as we can understand your perspective of why you thought it was a waste of time, a shame, and why you had high hopes for it. I think it sounds like he has read the book, or maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe I was wanted something there with. He's just gone with the hype and thought everybody loves this. It must be great when we're not everybody. But you know where I'm going with that. Strange that this has three likes on it as well. Yeah, so I wonder it's a general consensus of people. I I don't know. I don't know going to say, Tim don't agree, but that's cool. I'm entitled in my opinion and you're entitled to yours. So what I want to say in response to that is, I don't know if you're aware of some of the behind the scenes stuff. I'll go into this in a little bit more detail when we get to the news section, which it's been about five minutes. But what you're saying about it being a bit limp, I can agree with that in parts, because we've talked about the infamously tedious episode five that that was a bit limp, and there was other parts of it that were a bit limp. There was dialogue that was a little bit clunky in places and things, And the reason for this is because the because it was written as a ten episode season, then they had two episodes cut, and then they went into filming during a writer strike. So when you've got a script that's been written and you go to go to film that, sometimes it doesn't work once you've actually got the actors in there acting out the scene, and there's bits that are a bit wrong and they don't really work as well as you'd like them to, so you rewrite them. You do on the spot rewrites, But during a writer strike you're not allowed to do that. So therefore they had to go into filming this with the scripts that were prepared in the writer's room, and nobody knew how they were going to play out on screen until it was too late to do anything about it. So I think overall the series was an absolute success. It was, like Emma said, there's nothing out there like it, and it was really really well done. There was some amazing writing in there, some beautifully stunning dialogue, but at the same time, there was parts that were clunky, and I like to believe that in a world without a writer strike that those would have been fixed. You can't take away episode four. It was amazing. I had goosebumps episode four before the battle, and then the battle itself was absolutely phenomenal. So that's my part where I think I don't agree that for me, that was the highlight of both seasons. It was amazing. Yeah, I want to come back to something that we said earlier on in this episode as well, which was this is a story about characters. And yes, this season was lacking in action, right, but the next two episodes that were planned in the writer's room had that action that we were all craving. But this is a story about people. This is about the heart and conflict. That is what we got. It's a story about a family torn apart. After turn apart because of it, and that is what we are getting. And the fact that you know, these guys are being a bit hesitant about rushing headlong into full blown war during this second season. It's quite commendable, actually, because what's coming next, you might wish that things were a bit quieter. There's I think it would be good to bear in mind that George basses a lot of his writing on actual history. Yes, so. You know, from that perspective, a lot of this comes from real events and history is ambiguous. Yeah, so you know. I always come back to was it a Ramsey Snow quote from a big season five of Getting Thrones? If you think this story has a happy ending, you've not been paying it And it's so true. But like you're totally entitled to your opinion, Tim, and I understand why you feel the way you feel, and I hope that my answers of why it was the way it was maybe pacify you a bit and give you a little bit more hope for next season. That would be my hope that if you have gone to the effort to listen to this five hour podcast, then you are true and you will be back next season. I would also like to say that this is now at the point where I think you should turn this into a drinking game. And every time I have said, yeah, you take a drink. No, that's too bad. People will be on hospital. Well, I'm going to give it a go. Your turn, and our. Next comment is from Cecilia chin Chi Pederani's I think Pedriani's maybe. I hope that I have pronounced your name correctly. She says, I like the show. I thought the season was short. I was expecting more episodes. Well, I think we covered that during the last last comment. We were too Yeah, so was Ryan. And George. Yep, but it is what it is. We will get into a little bit more detail on the why of it in the new section, but for now, I agree with you. I'm glad that you like the show, and we hope to see you back next season. So now we've got Mary Banter horrible season. That the crying emoji sad emojie. I'm not sure. I think that's a waw emoji. That's kind of what that face looks like. Anyway, There's it's got squinty eyes, wrinkled eyebrows, and a wide open, upside down brown yeah, and a shruggy shoulders. Mary, I would I would like to know maybe why horrible season? Maybe I don't. I think we maybe covered No, No, your your comment is is just a short version of what Tim had to say. Really, it's it's a yeah, and that's that's okay. Constructive criticism, people, please. Criticism is okay, but for the purposes of this podcast, constructive So then we can debate it. Yeah, that we can talk about your points and agree with some of them and disagree with others, and hopefully maybe turn you around a little bit as well on the things that we disagree on, or maybe just solidify your views. Who knows, but give us, give us the why of what you feel. That's what I'm taking from that. I'm thinking of Mary Banter thinks that it was a horrible season. There's very little chance of our listening to our podcast. I think, Yeah, I think you're right. But just in case you do, Mary, we appreciate your comments. Please elaborate further. Yes, even after the fact, you can add to this post. And drop us a line. Mary, We'd love to hear from you. Definitely, okay. So, Daniel Warren says the last episode was a big letdown, needed less talking and steaming and more action. I would agree with you in the sense that if it was written as a season finale, Yeah, then I would absolutely. Actually, no, I'm going to take that back. I don't agree with you, because every single season of Thrones we had a big explosive episode nine and a chilled out after you know, after math, episode ten. I would say this as the form of most things on telling Now you have your your big bang episode nine or penotomate, Yeah, and then the last episode wind wind it all and then sets. You up for the next season as well. But yeah, and so so yes, we did have quite an explosive previous episode to episode seven with the dragon seed stuff was very action packed, not battly, but still action packed. And then we have this which did, in a lot of ways feel like an episode ten, especially the end of it. The last five minutes did feel like it felt like the end of season six. I think it was the end of season six of Thrones when Danny's owner ships coming over. Yeah, it had that kind of feel like everybody's moving into the places they need to be for the action to happen. I didn't hate it, Like my stances, Well, there's definitely going to be another season, you know how you watch Oh shit, don't tell me that's the real end end. No, there was definitely there's more to come, but as an episode, as a finale episode for a season, the overall, the last five minutes definitely felt like an end, But the overall of that episode didn't very much feel like a finale, I will give you that, But it was never written as a finale, No, and it's written as episode eight is ten. And as we've already covered, they had to roll with what they had. Yeah, it played out the way it did due to circumstance. Absolutely, we're just repeating the same thing. You guys know by now. They could only piss with the cock they've got, and that's it exactly. Now. The fact that Ryan and Sarah hess we're both on set as producers who are actually credited as writers, means that maybe behind the scenes there was a little jiggery pokatoo going on to tweak some stuff, But I would assume that is the established writers that they had, they would not want to cross that pickad line. Yeah, so. The there was a striking place and every writer who respected it, Yes, and so therefore it is what it is. And yeah, we can't repeat ourselves anymore on that. So is it memm? No, we have Oh we have me Okay, Rick flet was fairly lacking in the fire department. Overall, still really solid television, great character work and whatnot. But damn, a whole lot of build up and very little payoff. Oh, Rick, that's unfair. There was plenty fire like how many bastards died? And Dragonfire? Did you miss that episode? Forty? Yeah? Like I look back on our rip from that episode. There was a lot of bastards died. That was the ip from this. Okay, it was like ten minutes ago. Right, I'm going to disagree with the lacking fire. I love your overall still good solid television, great character work and whatnot. I that's this. Constructed, constructive, and it's back to its back to what we've already covered and. A lot of build up with very little payoff discussed why, Yes, we know that we agree with that, but hopefully we can win you back towards the show with some information as to the why. Well, come on, Rick, you know you want to Yeah, yeah. Yeah, great character work, that's what we came here for. Yes, absolutely, And finally, Kirk Penny So Kirk says, I've seen bits and pieces of Rings of Power. I don't think the casting is as powerful as Game of Thrones. This makes no sense, no sense whatsoever. However, Kirk, I am loving the anchor mantash. Yeah, but you're making no sense. Love. No. I think Kirk was very, very drunk when he sat down and watched Ousted the Dragon and Rings of Power. We've been drunk for this whole five and a half hour podcast. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, Oh, he's been funny. He's messing with us. Yeah, I think he's messing with us. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the how That's why the dead air was was me sitting They're going it's I think it's sarcasm. But yeah, oh Kirk, you cheeky monkey. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm getting your sarcasm there. And I'm thinking that you're feeling like all these shows are just this is maybe the vibe I'm getting. Yeah. What I'm taking from that is the Kirk thinks that all these shows are just the same. And I think we had a conversation about five ten minutes ago about why they're not. Yes, so please refer to our comments five minutes ago regarding comparing Rings of Power to Game Thrones or talken to Jeorge Martin. However, for our first listener feedback. Cheers, guys, it's been really nice to actually have some feedback. I really alciate the comments come in elaborate further we will. I do not care if they're paragraphs long. If you're going to send us a recording message, please keep it under three minutes. Oh, I'd love a little voice not or. Please send us a voice no, I really really really want to hear. Can you please say on your voice not if you would prefer for your voice not not to be used on the show, and we just read it out. I'm happy to do that. So yeah, if you want to leave as a voice you can either just record one on your phone and send it to our email address, which is talk at the unrel hour dot com. Or you can go to our website which is the unreel hour dot com and there is a link on every page at the side of the page that just has record a voice note and that will also get sent to the automatically to the same email. So sending us a voice recording has never been easier. So please use this function. And that is it for listener feedback. I'm so excited that we had listener feedback. Yay. Thanks guys, great to have you as part of the show. And that wraps up listener feedback. So let's move on to the news, which kind of follows on from some of the things we were saying about in the last section. Yep, let's start with the good stuff. What you got for it, Emma, Well got a Night of Seven Kingdoms come in. So that'll be our next thing before we have another season of House of the Dragon. Absolutely, so that'll be coming as late twenty twenty five and they have wrapped up filming. That's really cool. So it's going to be a lot simpler in a time of no dragons the entire first season. If the first season is played by the books, then the whole thing will be set over a period about two or three days at one tourney in one setting. I'm hoping to see a bit more humor. Definitely love Game of Thrones humor, so i'd like to see one of that. What are you open to see from the season. Oh, no spoilers at this point. No spoilers. Absolutely. What I'm hoping for is something a little bit more character focused. Yeah, we're going to have a much smaller selection of characters that are all going to be in the one play intermingling with each other. There's it's going to be cool seeing different generations of all these families that we already know. They'll be Lanisters and Barrathians and Starks all over the place. Yeah, so that'll be cool. But definitely the humor. Yeah, to come back to what you were saying, there's having read the books many years ago, and there is just a great connection between these two lead roles. There's going to be a lot of Banner Egg is very it's very dry, very very honest, a little spoiled and sees the world to a completely different view from Dunk. And so these two people coming together, they complement each other so well, and I'm looking forward that mostly, looking forward to seeing that relationship develop. And there's a lot of these kinds of relationships within the various worlds that we've come in to screenplay so far. So yeah, it'll be really cool to see that particular relationship on screen. Definitely, definitely, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they're going to do it. So, no, this isn't a spoiler. So between book one and book two there's like a two year gap. Are they going to fill in that gap or are they going to season as Season two going to be book two. Are we going to get a lot of these guys in their younger days for the show, or are these characters going to grow up as the seasons develop. I'm interested to see how it's all going to play out, and I'm very excited. It's definitely by a standout little reading experience for me reading these we novellas, they're great and they're riddled with lower in history. Really looking forward to that. So good, So can't wait to see them next year, late twenty twenty five. So I'm going to call it in say September. Yeah, I think that would be an appropriate sort of time to be releasing it. Maybe the back half of the summer actually maybe you know, July possibly, but certainly not before the summer. No, But like I say, it is going to be a lot smaller budgets, a lot less set development, etc. There's no massive CGI budget required for dragons or anything like that. But the blood of the dragon is still present, so we might be missing those fiery beasts, but the dragon presence will still be felt. I don't think there's any massive actors in it either, is there not? That I know of, No, I know one. I haven't heard of anyone I know being cast, so that's yeah. But do you know, having looked at the actors that have been cast, I'm like, yeah, that's how I pictured them. Good. Yeah, I'm definitely feeling that. So there's some absolutely fab notable characters from history. We've got the Laughing Storm, we have Baylor Breakespear, it's absolutely legendary historical characters from Ice and Fire. I'm actually just having a scroll through the cast on IMDBE and there's maybe sixteen actors within the whole thing so far, but fourteen, right, fourteen? So yeah, that's really cool. And none of them have been in massive, massive things, So I like that. I like it, don't they don't overcast? It? Is that? Is that a thing that? Yeah? Like I feel Game of Thrones heard this great mixture of unknown actors and well established iconic actors like Charles Dance or Diana Diana Diana Rigg. Yeah, and Diana Rigg so absolutely. In the original Avengers. Yes, she was. She's a very very cool lady. Absolutely loved her appeal. She was. Oh I don't know, I'll take your word for that, but yeah, so we've got these amazing actors that you know, were absolute stars in our parents'. Day, you know, but they weren't the main characters, which made it even cooler. Yeah, yeah, definitely many many that there's just. Come Sean mean, we forget Sean Bain. Yeah, and then. God, I can't remember his name. Oh love Joy, Oh my god, Ian McShane, Ian McShane exactly. I mean these are like, you know, these actors are like people we grew up with. But yeah, at the same time, they had this fine balance of unknown actors too. So yeah, Ian McShane is a vampire, didn't you know, is he? Oh? Yeah, yeah, he is aging. But I'm like, okay, so Ian McShane has been like middle aged since I was six, and I'm now middle aged, and he doesn't look that much older. His age is not progressing anyway. I would imagine he should be like one hundred and seven by now, and he's not. Do you know what. I was feeling the same way about Patrick Fastenders as well. He's been an old man my whole life, my whole adult life. He's been an old But see watching the old ones like I'm watching the recently watched some like I think it was two thousand and one or something he came in there, and I recently watched those ones and you see him then compared to now, and you do see the decline of age, right, But at the same time, I felt like he was old back then. I think it's our perspective, isn't it. Yeah, But yeah, definitely I lost track of what we were saying. But I think we were done anyway. I think we were just going off on a whet agent there. So moving on. Next on the agenda for news was so, yes, here we are, and it's time to address what happened behind the scenes House the Dragon this year. And it's tragic really. We already made reference to the fact that they wrote for a ten episode season at the very last minute, the budget was cut and the writer strikes or et cetera. But what is going on behind the scenes HBO and Warner Brothers Discovery is tragic. Really. It all appears to come back to I mean, it's hard to just blame one person. I'm sure there are plenty other mistakes going on a lot of the way, but it all kind of comes back to the David Zaslav, who is David Zaslav, who is the current CEO and president of Warner Brothers Discovery. He became CEO in twenty twenty one, and since then, Warner Brothers stock has dropped by seventy percent. Oh shit. I've watched a bit videos and done a bit of reading, and I don't pretend to retain all the facts and figures. My memory doesn't work like that. But what I can remember off the top of my head here was he lost them the contract with the NBA. They asked for more money or we're going back to Vox. I think it was Fox. So they asked, we want more money or we're going back to Fox. And he went, okay, off you go, and they went okay then and he went, oh no, I've changed my mind. Here have more money. And they're like, no, no, we're gone. Deal sign We're off. And he lost that. I mean the NBA. That's massive. They lost that. There was a massive, massive, massive loss regarding the Suicide Squad game. Apparently the gaming division of Warner Brothers is an absolute shambles, and this game not only flopped, but had takings of negative two hundred million. Oh shit, yeah, that is how much. Money went down. The toilet, and you know, I don't. I don't need to comment on the personal of someone I've never met or even seen in an interview, And maybe should I have watched some interviews with them and made throw my own conclusions from this. But from what I can gather from people who have done the research is that the guy's all over the place. He's making bad decisions, he's making bad investments. He's focusing on the cable division, which is a decline in industry, and not putting enough focus into the streaming, which is a growing industry. So money's being lost, Money's been squandered, money has been shuffled around. But when you come to your flagship show and you make them take the hit, that suicide. So I don't understand how he still see you, Like how the board of directors, if he's such a money pit, how have they not said they not pulled the plug on this guy. Well, I think the thing is is start at politics, really, and I don't really want to get into the politics side of it too much, but a lot of it hung on the recent election, and had the Democrats come into power, David Saslav probably would have been outsted quite soon. Thereafter. But as we are now in a republican capitalist type administration going forward, that's kind of up in the air now, and you might find that, you know, it could be possible that Zaslav is just there to gut out eachbo for all it's worth and sell it on. Well, that's really sad, it is, because this is where politics and capitalism are destroying art. Yeah, and we're going to move on from that because that's never a topic that we want to delve too far into. No, I don't. I don't want to get any deeper to that. But those are the facts people. I just want to keep our listeners and you know, because I think, you know, based on those comments as well, a lot of people were feeling the negatives of this season and I want to maybe, you know, an informed opinion is always better as far as I'm concerned. So our listeners would like them to know that there is stuff going on behind the scenes that has effected absolutely. But when we get to a point where it's involving politics, I like to take a stance of we're never going to know what the truth is exactly. So when we get to a point where we say politics is involved We're just going to cut it there and say, look, guys, you can draw your own conclusions, because it's we're never going to be. Either politically inclined nor American. So therefore I do not understand the balance of power over there. I don't think anybody's ever going to understand there's two secrets and lies, clocks and daggers and not enough dragons in that situation. Yes, definitely, And that's the perfect note to end this conversation, not enough dragons. So that finally brings us to our final topic, which is Georgie is not a blog blog post. Let's went for a second for those people that don't know what went on there. Not everyone trolls these kind of size looking for information like I do entirely parto much time. Are you sure? You mean you've listened to a six hour podcast and you don't know what's going on? Very good point, Emma. So the basic gist of it is that George released a blog post in which he criticized some of the choices made in How to the Dragon. I it's hard to tell what it is he is specifically angry about. Is it particularly that the specific plot points that he mentions in the book, and I think we have to make an announcement now that we're getting into spoilers here. One or two might slip out during it, because George let one or two slip out during his during his post. So the general just as is George was titled be Waere the Butterflies, and George was warning against making small changes early on that affect bigger things later down the line that ultimately destroy the plot points as far as he's concerned. I think that, to be fair, some of the things that George mentioned as particular plot points were ambiguous in the book. They were it could have been this, but some people said this happened, and some people said that happened, and where it's unclear in the book as to what the act what actually went down in those events. But George has kind of wrote this blog and stated some plot points as if that's what went down. So the basic gist of it is that George went on and this is, like I said, we're in spoiler section here. People, if you do not want to hear book spoilers, switch off right now. As it stands, I don't think these are TV show spoilers because it looks like they're not happening, which is pretty much the issue. So George was going on about the fact the bliv and Cheese, saying that there was one of the three children was missing, the younger sibling, Mailer, who's two years old. Maylor. It is not a significant character in the story except that when he dies, his death is significant. Yeah, And because George was told by Ryan when he brought it up, why is Mailer not there? He says, well, we just don't want to cast to kid that young, but we might. We're going to add him in next season. And George went, okay, well I'm not going to I didn't fight it too hard, so they moved on. And now it's been said that this person is being cut in season three. Now, this might be for any number of reasons. It could be due to just simplifying the story because they it could be down to these massive budget cuts that have affected the series length. They were supposed to do this in four seasons ten episodes each. They only got eight episodes for this season, and they may only get eight for the next two. And if they only get eight, then it's going to be a lot harder to tell everything that they wanted to tell that's six episodes off their final count missing. Yeah, so maybe they decided to cut this storyline because of the budget restraints. Maybe they decided to cut this storyline because this two year old's death is horrific. Yeah. I don't want to see that on screen. Nope, I don't mean to see that very much. Yeah. For those of you that are red, fire and Blood, you know we're talking about this child is ripped apart by a mob, and I don't need to see a two year old ripped apart by a mob. I am that this show can shock me on levels I never thought could. So does Game of Thrones at times reading those books absolutely the Red Weddings, saying I was just reading along, what flip back two pages? What just happened? You know? These these books can shock me and have shocked me on so many levels. I don't need to be that shocked. So if they have chose to cut this because it is horrific, then I'm actually on board with that. Yeah, like, how do you how do you play that out on screen? How do you cast that? And how do you support the actor, the child, actor and their parents through that? Yeah? So that's a lot and actually that costs a lot. Also, Yeah, so no, let's not do that. If I was in charge, I would say let's not do that. There's another way around it. And also the story for those of us that have read Fire and Blood, there are three different accounts. Yeah, so you can pick whateveryone you like, but there's an easier route to go down. Yea, I myself have chatted with you and came up with an easier way to. Go down that we can still have because I think what George then went on to say was that the events of this are what ultimately trigger Helena, yeah, to end her own life. It can still be done without screenplay, being a child being at the park exactly, We don't. We have imaginations. We can. We can get there through a different route of screenplay, which, do you know. Something even simpler, Just Helena haven't had enough of these visions. Yeah, that could be enough to make her want to She's already lost a child. That could be enough. Yeah. So George is basically saying that Ryan's outline for season three does still have Helena committing suicide, but for no apparent reason. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be for no apparent reason. No, I think the writers of the House of the Dragon are what's the word I'm looking for, competent. They're competent enough to be able to put together a plausible arc for Helena to drive her to that place. She's been through a lot. If they managed to monkey an arc two episodes short in her writer strike, I think they can manage this one. Yeah, absolutely, I definitely agree. So basically, George's warning is that there may be more butterflies to come with some of the plan that they have for season three and four. It's unclear they said changes. The word was changes. Actually it's unclear as to whether he means those changes or changes to the episode structure, or whether they're changes to the plot. Do you know, I think it sounds like a communication breakdown. Oh definitely. So it's like, you're not answering the phone to me. So I'm going to put a very passive, aggressive post on Facebook so that you see it and then you call me. Yeah, And that very much might be what happened there. George was not getting the response that he wanted in the timeframe that he wanted. Yeah, So a very public post which was responded to within thirty minutes so then he deleted said post. Yeah, maybe got what he wanted after all, or at least got a conversation yeah, which I think was the main point. So all in all, what I want to say is is that there's right and wrong on both sides here. I think they are blessed to have George on hand for advice, and they should appreciate that. Not a lot of book adaptations or people that adapt books have that. They didn't have that with Lord of the Rings, No they didn't, So that. I think they are blessed to have George on side and they should utilize his input more. But on the other hand, I think there are better ways to go about things than the way George did, because I get the making a passive aggressupposed to get attention almost, but the spoilers that came out within that. What I would say what is though, that you know, when we had all the Dan and Dave stuff with Game of Thrones, I ever felt the need to do that. But what leg did he have to stand on. He hadn't finished the source material, And I think that's maybe what's going on here is like listen, last time I kept my mouth shut, but this time I gave you the fricking book with all the details and the end then and you're still going off book. Yeah, and so therefore I think that might be part of what pissed them off. Devil's Advocate, is there an element of well, you let us do it with Well, you let it happen with Game of Thrones, so why can't we do it in a very minor way with Fire and Blood. Well, let's face it, Fire and Blood is dry and factual and unemotional. Yeah, and a TV show needs to be the opposite of all those things. Yeah, you need character connection. So that is the job of Ryan and thy Michael and Sarah Hess et cetera. Are all, you know, trying to make these actors lossom in front of us, Yeah, and live and breathe instead of just names on a page. And there's nothing wrong with the way George writes the Fire and Blood. There's nothing wrong with no in fairness to George, I think, honestly, the way he wrote particularly Alissan, Yeah, really connected with that character. She was wonderful. Je Harris as well, Yeah, like really really fantastically written and although it was dead factual. Yeah, I love those characters. I would love to see a spin off of Jeharris and Alison, and I was dead boring because they. Nothing really happened. But no, But can we have it like a wrong com Can we have like a soap like Neighbors, but it's just jeheis and Alisan in their whole life. Can we have that? Yeah? Because their kids are drama like any yeah character, Well, their kids are like proper soap characters. Yeah, can we have that? Yeah, that'd be cool. So I don't think I've really got anything else to say on George. But while we're talking about characters that you fall in love with, staying in spoilers. By the way, people were still in spoilers here. If you weren't worried about new spoilers and you kind of wanted to, we snip it, but you don't want to be completely spoiled on what's coming next. Now is the time to leave. So let's talk about some of the things that were changed in the season that have had a massive impact on the fandom and maybe the way the story's going to develop. Because these weren't points that George mentioned in his blog, but they're certainly observed by the fandom. Yeah, So let's start with Nettles. I'm sorry, Nettles, who rud She's not in the show at all. I know there was I mean I did point out during the red Son that there was a character board in the boats kind of looked like she could be a Nettles. Yeah, but we did not see her on Dragonstone. I don't know if this character was maybe about to be cast, but then they decided to cut her because they cut these two episodes. But let's just say, if Nettles is going to appear in the show, they bear bring it in in the first five minutes in the next episode because she's in the next fight. Yeah. So there's that, And then there's the fact that what is going on with Reina, Like, so Nettles is supposed to be the ride of a sheep stealer and when we last see Rena, she's face to face with this dragon. To be fair, she has not. Claimed that dragon yet. No, but you know, looking at it though, isn't it so unless Nettles pops out from behind a rock with a sheep in her hands to feed sheep stealer in the next scene, I don't think we're getting a Nettles and the fandom are not happy about this. I don't think I'm very happy about this, to be honest with you, because Okay, I'm just gonna put this out there. I firmly believe that Nettles is Leaf from a Game of Thrones. Neils is Leaf, the child of the forest that was with Brann in the cave. Leif said that she wandered the realms of men for two hundred years in the time of the Dragon. The way Nettles is described could almost be like a child of the forest. The way Nettles just disappears with her dragon when she's had enough of the war and just never to be heard from again. Is she not might to be Demon's bastard daughter. Though well it's speculated. See this is the thing in the book. It's either specially as she might be his bastard daughter or she might be his lover. I think she's neither. I think she's just his friend. I think they have an connection. Maybe there is a little story there possibly, But. Is she a child of the forest and he's a green seer? Is that what that is? M See, this is what the other thing, because if we come back to the whole theory that like that, I can't let go of. Is that Damon does not die at the God's Eye. Damon is rescued by Nettles and taken north beyond the Wall or possibly to the Isle of Faces m hm. And he is the greens here before Blood Raven. That is my theory, is also Grayius theory that Gray Waste Tim's backing it up on this one. It makes sense to me, and it makes sense to me because at the start of Fire and Blood, George Martin changed Damon's great grandmother from half Hilarion and Targarian m h to half Targarian and half Massy. That would be House Massy of Sharp Point that we just saw Aimond destroy. So that would that would make them first men, and that would make Damon have first men blood, and all the Targetarians from that point onwards, to be honest with you, would have Turgarian blood, would have first men blood, which means green Sier blood. So that is my theory. And if they are cutting net, which really messes with my head because of what they've just done with Demon. What they've just done with Demon has enriched that theory for me, has kind of ruined that theory for me. At the same time, and I just don't know whether I'm coming or going. And maybe they've done that on purpose because they don't want to give that away in season two. That's maybe a season three or maybe even season four reveal. It could very well be, but it's got me spinning. I just don't know what to think. And I want Netles. I want to know what went on with her and Damon. I want to know. Well, we'll never know what George was thinking unless George tells us. But George could tell Ryan and Ryan could make it happen. Yeah, I think that communication breakdowns failing there. Yeah, I mean there is the perspective that the argument is more with the production team of House of the Dragon as opposed to Ryan specifically. I don't think I think it's problems with Ryan specifically. I mean, George hand picked Ryan for this role, so I'd like to believe that they're still friends. I've hand picked x's and friends that I no longer talk to, so you hand. Picks all my boyfriends and that wasn't a good choice. Sorry, if any of my exes are listening, but you know. She's not sorry. You were there, you know. So Yeah, just to conclude a the raina side of things there, Like they've made a lot out of a character who plays a very small part in this part of the story. Yeah. She I'm surprised that. I suppose if they if whoever, these people that are adapting Fire and Blood, they've decided that Nettles is Damon's daughter, not his lover, his daughter. They've decided that they're going down that route because it is open to interpretation this book. So they've decided they're going down that round. They decided daughter, and then thought, well why not cast the Why cast another daughter when we have another daughter doing nothing. Yeah, she's still the worst babysitter ever. She is. But I really like the actress. I like her, and I like the way that she plays the character. I love her wee face. She has the best special expressions, and I just love that moment where she sees sheepstealer and she's like fuck, yeah, she does act it really well. I would really like that girl. So, yeah, it was a lot of running. It was. Yeah, No, she was really good. And although we are really missing Nettles. And it's the screen time throughout the whole season. Doesn't feel like it. No, No, it doesn't it felt like a lot more. Yeah, but it was nine minutes and at least two minutes, so that was running. A lot of good face acting. Yes, I like her. I am not against them adapting this down that way as long as they do something cool with Raina. Look. When we first started this, I was so pissed off about the Rania and allisent situation and the way that they'd adapted it. However, as it's progressed the arc between their relationship, or the the arc of their relationship. And the relationship between the actors, yep. No, yeah, one hundred percent. And what I've come to understand within myself is it's not the book. This is the show. Yes, they're two completely different canons. Get over it, Emma, and I'm over it. And I'm enjoying the show for being the show. Yeah, I'm not George. I didn't write it. I support George, love you George, yea as your are, and that's cool. But this is also Ryan's art, and you, George, let that be Ryan's art, and he's really running with it and he's done such a great job, and that that's my stance on it, So that. I think it is I think they've done some amazing things like making Helena a dreamer. Yeah, genius. Even George loves that. George thinks that's great, right, and it is. It's genius. You can't like, love the great bits and then be a man, massive hater. And do you know what, here's another thing in Fire and Blood. Damon's a bit rebellious and a bit of a problem. And then he suddenly turns around and he's like on Raanina's side one hundred percent. And there's no explanation for it. They just gave us an explanation for it. Yeah, it wasn't so much a cash straight it was an. Arc, Yeah it was. And I love the Ryan and Sarah and that I've got to get because it's mostly Ryan and Sarah that are conferring their little collabors. I love Gita's episodes. Yeah, Geta is a fantastic director. She's really good. Actually, my favorite episodes are Alan Taylor episodes. Alan Taylor is absolutely fabulous. Let's not forget Alan. He was brilliant, great director. But Sarah and Ryan, I've done most of the writing and most of the development of these characters and come up with these ideas and what they chose to do with Damon. How did Damon get from there to there? I think they maybe overdid it a little bit. We'll talk about episode five again, but overall, I think it was they gave us an exploration for why Damon sort of turns around. The Devil's Advocate of episode five, I would just like to point out it is actually the one that we've referenced more than any other. Yeah, although negatively we have still referenced it. Yes, we have, so you know, there's obviously some things in that that stood out. Are we moving towards a conclusion? Yes, before all our listeners have died of old age? Yeah, definitely. Any other thoughts on that? Nope, no, no, I'm done. Well I got one more. Yep, I got one more. Agon thinks he's Dragon's dead? Ah? Yes, Well are we going show canon or bookcanon or what we're doing here? Well? This is it? I mean, did your Dragon's not dead? Oh shit, it's the show. It might be. Well, that's it. It's like, are the show going down their shroad? Because if they make that change, Rana die and Butterfly. Yeah, because, as Geoffrey already told us, Ye, Brenda was roasted by Sunfire some fire a very broken dragon for all accounts at the time. But the way it is in the book is the dragon is just still at Rook's rest. He's just injured and can't fly and hold up in the wood somewhere recovering, and some men get sent to try and take this dragon down and it doesn't go very well. A lot of people die. Maybe we'll see that in season four. Maybe this is something that's being kept I think. So this is the surprise because that this point, this dragon flies off and has never really heard from again until towards the end of the story when we've realized that this dragon has been reunited with Eggon. I really hope that none of our listeners have like fallen asleep and then woken up at this point and been like, what the fuck you, dick, you've just given away the end of season four. Sorry, damn it, I missed the point when I turned off with the spoilers. Yeah, sorry, not sorry. So anyway, Yeah, so this dragon is not dead. It can't be dead. No, it just can't be. But we are no that that is a worse butterfly than little Magor that can that can't happen that. That just can't. It would just ruin the plot completely. The only other way around it would be for Agon to claim a second dragon. No, no, there's only one available. That's the Cannibal. Well no, after that, it would be Helena's dragon, because Helena would. Have Yeah, there's dream Fire. If Helena is dead, I suppose there could be dream Fire. There could could be away for them to write dream Fire and oh no, I don't want to think about that. Please don't do that. No, no, it's not going to happen that way. It's not. I've just given I've just solved the end of the whole thing. That's that's how that just can't. I've given it. It's going to be a white surprise and maybe a little flashback, yeah, because that's the way it's written. It's written like there's a dragon and yeah, there's a little story about some fishermen who saw two dragons fighting on the beach not that long ago described the dragons, and the dragons fitted the description of Sunfire and grey Ghost the other wild dragon. I think they'll do sheepstealer instead of grey Ghost. You think sheep stealing and some fire are going to have the fight yes, well, yeah, because if they're not doing the Nettles thing where Netles flies away with the sheep stealer. Yes, that's how I think they're going to play it out, and that way. They don't have to create another new dragon so they can cheap out. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think if I was trying to make some budget cuts, that might be the way to go. Oh that's bleak. No, it's not glasses one less dragons. It's still a dragon fight. It's awesome. Yeah, it'll be cool. So I'm definitely looking forward to that. Was there any other spoilery related things that we forgot to mention? No, that I can think of off the top of my head. No, I'll probably come up with them and editing, because we'll have mentioned them early on and we'll just save that for spoilers. We'll have forgotten all about them. But for now, I'm going to say that's it. So pulling ourselves back to the last two episodes that we've just watched, Episode seven, favorite scene going to be the dragon stuff for you, isn't it. Yeah? Yeah, definitely my favorite scene. I'm going to go with Oscar Tully. Okay, favorite performance episode seven, Episode seven, Rineida with Vermuth or Oh that was cool. That that was cool? Yeah, she was. She was all kinds of scary in those scenes. Yeah, that was her turning point. Definitely right. Episode eight, favorite. Scene Damon and Rinda Haronhall. Favorite scene that was cool? It was it was. It gave me all kind of goosebumps. My favorite scene from that episode here, my kid, it was the green Man. Who was the green Man? Definitely without favorite performance. Oh from episode eight. Yeah, it was Alison with Rania. Yeah. She was pretty powerful, wasn't she. Yeah, I'm going to go nier with Alison. Yeah, it was a great scene with him, it was. It was beautifully written, beautifully acted. There was a couple of clunky moments, but but I'm going to put that down to writer's issues, writer strikes issues. But overall, actually, favorite favorite part of that scene is the visual which I mentioned before, of Alison being free looking out over a landscape and Ranera being pigeoned in that in those little yeah diamond boxes. Yah, yeah, I love that shot. That was absolutely brilliant. I think my favorite part of that scene would be, oh, just go then. Yeah, it was delivered so well by Emma, it was really good. Not me. I really felt it. I really felt it at that moment. So last and final question before we wrap this up. Who's winning the war? Who's winning right now? The Blacks are winning right now. You think, yeah, I would say that. Right up until the last minute that I felt like the Blacks were finally winning. You know, the Wors going for a couple of baby dragons to seven and a couple of them are badass, and it felt like, yeah, the Blacks were definitely starting to win. But I think the introduction of the triarchy is invariable. That is definitely going to rock the boat. And it definitely puts the Greens in a stronger position than they were in five minutes before that. It does, but their cockless king is fleeing with the cripple. Yeah. At the moment, their Queen Dowager and Queen. The Adventures of Clubfoot. Eggs, their Queen dowager has just invited Rania to come in and take the throne from the queen. All signs point to team Black winning. Yeah. Certainly on paper, team Black have the absolute advantage. What was that? How was your fridge having a fit? I need. So? Yeah, it certainly points towards Team Black having all the advantage, but the Trier Care definitely have added some strength to the Greens at this stage. But the only time will tell, because this is an adaptation that could go anyway, and I'm on board for the whole ride. I don't care what they change, how they change. I'm going to be disappointed about some things as they change them, but as long as they do what they do, well, yeah, then I'm on board for the ride. And they don't do something, they don't change it too much, like you know, like Venia dying in a completely different way. That would be you know, too much of a change for me. Yes, But yeah, I'm happy and you are happy, and we are looking forward to two years down the line for the next season. But in the meantime we have the Adventures of Duncan Neck and that brings us to Oh, this is the part where we normally say what our next episode is going to be, but we don't have one. Our next episode will be in late twenty twenty five with the episode one of a Night of the Seven Kingdoms. But in the meantime, you can check us out on YouTube. If you want to contact us, you can head over to our website at the Unreal Hour dot com, where you can find links to our social media and pay on to review, like, follow, and subscribe. You can also leave us a voice message that we may use on the show. Finally, you can email us at talk at the unmelour dot com. And if you like what we're doing here and you want to support the show, then you can visit patreon dot com slash the Unreal Hour, where you can subscribe for ad free listening, early access episodes, and explosive content. Or you can buy us a coffee at buy meocoffee dot com Slash the Annual Hour. All of your donations we'll go back into the show to cover costs and keep the lights on. Once again, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep it on Real