"Rhaenyra the Cruel" (HOTD S2EP2) (ACOIAF #11)

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_18]: Do you accept me as your queen and ruler?

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_18]: Or do you cling even now to what you think you lost?

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_28]: What I think I lost?

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_18]: You did not lose it, you gave it away.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_18]: Because you thought ever and only of your own glory

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_18]: and not of my father in his group.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Your father was a coward who knew I was the stronger son.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: That I was the leader of men and he was afraid to be seen in my shadow.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_18]: Is that what you understand of your own brother?

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know better than I do.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_02]: He was raised at his side.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you believe he made you heir because of your great wisdom?

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Because of your virtue?

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: How dare you?

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Or did he merely use you as a tool to put me in my place

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_02]: because he was afraid of me?

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Because he knew your legacy, unlike mine, would never outshine his own.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_18]: He was not afraid of you, Daemon!

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_18]: He could not trust you

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_18]: any more than I can trust you.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_18]: He was a fool

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_28]: who sought greatness but shrank from spilling blood to achieve it

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_28]: and I see you will suffer the same fate.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_18]: You've struck down a child.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_28]: It was a mistake.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_20]: You're pathetic.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_21]: Welcome to The Unreal Hour.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Hi there and welcome to our show.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm Fiona.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm Emma.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_10]: And this week is season two, episode two,

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_10]: Reneera the Cruel.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_06]: What a title.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_23]: The episode was directed by Claire Kilner

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_07]: and written by Sarah Hess.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_07]: And props to those ladies,

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_07]: particularly Sarah Hess.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_07]: It was a beautifully written episode.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It was.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: It was all about the dialogue

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_07]: and wow, it was intense.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_07]: It was.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_07]: It was fantastically written.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Very emotional, absolutely.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_07]: What did you think of the episode overall?

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_10]: Overall I felt like it should have been titled

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Guilt, Pain and Rash Decisions

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_10]: because that seems to be a theme all the way through the episode.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, it really does.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_07]: It really, really, really, really does.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow. So do you know what?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_07]: There's so much to talk about.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It was an hour and five minutes long.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And it was all dialogue.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_07]: So let's get in.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. Okay.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_07]: So what do you want to talk about first?

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I'd like to talk about the opening scene first

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_10]: because I thought it was directed really, really well.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, definitely.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_07]: It was absolutely amazing.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me bring up my notes on that scene.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_10]: So visually it was blurry.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_10]: There was bloody bed sheets.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_10]: All the servants are running around crazy,

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_10]: being rounded up by the guards.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It was chaotic.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_07]: It was servants and nobles alike.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyone that was in the castle

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_07]: was just rounded out their beds.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_07]: It was, oh, there were sniffer dogs.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_20]: I didn't actually notice that.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_07]: It was sniffer dogs that were sniffing.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if it was something of Jeharus's bed in

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_07]: or something like that in order to see if they could pick up

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_07]: the scent of where the rest of Jeharus was.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_07]: It was an intense scene.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_10]: It was. It was great.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Anything more?

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, just visually it was outstanding for an opening scene

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_10]: because of where we'd just left it.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was just that first couple of minutes, the music.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Was there slow-mo?

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_10]: I did have a note on the string music.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_10]: It was great.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Everything about that scene was fantastic.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It was beautifully directed.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I absolutely loved it.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_07]: It was heart wrenching.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_07]: So we've got Aegon smashing up Old Valeria after that.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Well done, Tom Glencarnie.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_10]: He was really going at that.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_10]: I watched a behind the scenes.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_10]: So don't worry guys, it was a stunt double of Old Valeria.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_10]: The real one's totally safe.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so no Valerian statues were harmed in the making of this episode.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_20]: No, not at all.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_07]: The real one is safe.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_07]: It'll be in a museum somewhere, someday.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But thank goodness for that.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_07]: So what else happened in the opening scenes?

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_07]: We had Eamon discovering the passageway.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_07]: His face was expressionless.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And yet I read a thousand thoughts that went through his head.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and he finds the coin.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_10]: And you're right.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_10]: There was no dialogue.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Everything was read on his face.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_10]: And he seems to have this realization, oh, I was the target.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_10]: That sneaky daemon.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So he knows.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_07]: So was there anything else on the opening scenes?

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Nope.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Right, okay.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_07]: My first thing that I would like to bring to the table is

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_07]: the guilt and shame.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_07]: So Kristen Cole and Alison, first of all, we have

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Alison's shame when she is

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_07]: she's grieving for her grandson, but mostly her daughter.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And the trauma that she's gone through as opposed to

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_07]: the actual loss of the child.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_07]: But it is

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_07]: overbearing guilt

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_07]: that is causing her to completely break down.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_07]: And that moment she starts going on with the God's punish us and

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I've sinned, I think she says that a couple of times in the episode.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yes, that was at the end of the episode

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_07]: with Otto after he'd been fired.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And she says I'd sinned and he's like, I don't want to hear about it.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's like the shame that she is feeling is carrying with her

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_07]: this whole episode influences every decision she makes, every

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_07]: interjection she makes in the dialogue.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And then we have Kristen, the flip side of that or

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_07]: her partner in shame, although

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_07]: his is slightly different because

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_10]: yeah, she's internalizing and he is outwardly

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_10]: he wants to shake up for the

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_10]: yeah, for the

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_10]: he feels like he's caused it.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. And instead of trying to put things right,

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_07]: he's trying to drag other people into his shame.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_07]: The scene at Alison's door, for example, when he says that

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_07]: he says there's no absolution for what I've done.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's a pity party.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_07]: This is a total pity party moment.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And then later on, he in fact, I think it's pretty much the next scene

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_07]: or not too far behind it within the next 10 minutes anyway

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_07]: that he has that moment with Eric Cargill and he's trying to then push

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_07]: his shame onto Eric Cargill.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And the things that he says in that moment.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_07]: In fact, I have that scene.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_07]: So just play that.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But before just before I do, I also want to bring attention

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_07]: then at the end of the episode again, when he's showing up in Alison's room,

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_07]: you know that again is that it's trying to drag Alison into his shame as well.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_07]: But this scene with Eric Cargill completely sums it up as far as I'm concerned.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_07]: So let's hear it.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Remember rightly, Eric Cargill could just feel his eyes burning in the back of his head.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_07]: He turns around.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: What is this?

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a reminder of yesterday, I think.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_04]: The procession was muddy.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll replace it, Hans.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Do it now.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_04]: The night was long, Sir Christian.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I had not eaten if I could just...

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You defy my authority, Sir Eric.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I do not.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_04]: The white cloak is a symbol of our purity, our fidelity.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Kings guard are a sacred trust.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Who so easily sully our ancient honor?

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my God, sorry, I can't, I can't.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_08]: It's just, I can't.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_08]: I have no words except laughter.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Eric's cloak isn't going to fix your shame, love.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_10]: No.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a symbol of fidelity.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh dear.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I have heard, my lord.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll remedy the error.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Where were you when Jeharris was murdered?

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh come on, love, where were you?

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Where's King Egon?

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I knew it, I knew it.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And you were not in the private quarters where you might have prevented the crime.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: His grace wished to entertain his companions in the throne room.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_04]: What if you had thought to go upstairs?

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Where were you?

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Law commander.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And why has Helena the Queen been granted no small protector?

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Surely once she ascended she should have a brand new...

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a thief and a traitor to the crown.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_07]: What's that got to do with that here?

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_07]: It's irrelevant to what he was saying.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You well know how it pays me.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: How are we to know that you do not secretly share his sentiments?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I denounced him before the king.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_04]: We were once all in two bodies, yes.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: If I'd shared his sentiments I would have fled with him.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_04]: First your brother betrays us.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the young prince...

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_04]: ...is murdered on your watch.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_04]: You are mad, sir.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I've taken the jury out.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: You cannot think that I did think has no relevance!

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_04]: You have brought disgrace upon our ranks.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_10]: He's talking to himself again.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah it's total transference.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And now you must restore it.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_04]: How am I to do that?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And at this point he leads him away and tells him to go and murder Renita in the guise of his brother.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And again it's just, like you said, transference.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Everything that he said to Eric there is like what his inner voice is saying to him about himself.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And he just wants to share that shame and that guilt with everybody.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And it makes him then do more worse things.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_07]: This is his first act as Hand of the King, I believe.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Or no, he makes the decision just before.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_07]: He makes the decision just before he becomes Hand.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_07]: But still, nonetheless, people at semantics, you know what I mean?

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_07]: By the end of the day he is Hand anyway.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_07]: So technically it is his first act as Hand is to go and do something so despicable and underhanded.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And as Eric says to him that it's like we stand for honour.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he's totally trying to gaslight him.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_10]: He's like, oh this has to be you. This has to be your brother and you.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Where were you? What were you doing?

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely. It starts off like just, you know, he's just trying to find that.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Have you ever been in that argument where it starts off as one thing and before you know it it's something else and then it's something else and then it's something else because the person you're talking to just wants a fight?

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Or maybe yourself? I've been that guy. I'm not going to lie.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what it was.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_07]: It was just like he was just he needed to let something out.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So he walks in and he sees the dirty cloak. First it's the dirty cloak and then it's where were you?

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And then it's your brother is a traitor and it's just oh he's just spiralling. He's totally he's losing it.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Really, really losing it. Did you have any other notes on that scene?

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_10]: No but just as you were saying, have you ever had that in a thinking it's like arguing with a toddler?

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Just spirals.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_10]: So then what would you like to talk about next?

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Right let's have a look at my notes.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh the procession scene.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_10]: Again it was a very visual scene.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_10]: There was bits of dialogue from the crowd that are really important but visually it was absolutely stunning.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah the confetti.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know about you but I spent that whole procession especially well towards the end but just going please don't fall off.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_07]: That was it took that was taking a lot of my emotion.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of emotions going on.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh dear this is stitched on head for me.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I was like this head please don't like this head or even the whole body fall off this cart.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought I really thought that was going to happen.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And when the cart gets stuck.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_22]: I thought oh no no.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah yeah and they're rocking it and everything I thought oh my god it's going to fall it's going to fall.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And I kind of took over a lot of the emotion of the scene for me the very first time I watched it.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_07]: The second time watching it I was more focused in on Helena and I think she's an empath.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I feel like she was really feeding off the emotion of the crowd there and when they surrounded her she was just overwhelmed.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah yeah I get that.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I just they were they were all like wailing and grieving for her.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_10]: And Summer's shouting Ranira the monstrous.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_10]: It really had the effect that Otto wanted it to have on the small folk.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_10]: It was pure propaganda.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_07]: At the end of the day it was it was political theatre.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_07]: It's despicable.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Told you I hate that man he's awful.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_07]: However.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_07]: It was incredibly clever though.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_10]: It was incredibly clever.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_07]: It's yeah it's really hard to to feel that but it was it was something terrible has happened.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Now how can we spin this to our favour.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely and that's just his that's how his mind works as a tactician.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_10]: However I did get the sense that he did feel grief.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_10]: He was sad but that's his coping mechanism.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_10]: To be proactive.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah he's very pragmatic.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_10]: But to use his daughter and his granddaughter and his little great grandson.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_10]: It's all fake news.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah and there's a part when he says we must protect the king of course.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_10]: All right so it's okay for you to send the women out.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Well yeah that was at the end of the small council scene that were in which they planned that.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Actually I have that clip and it might as we've mentioned it let's drop in here.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_25]: Lord Jasper is correct.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_25]: In one sense we must determine what happened and if we in the keep are still in peril in another sense of course.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_25]: It doesn't matter.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You mean to blame Renera.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell the realm she has done this.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_24]: I'll have the realm told nothing.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_24]: We were assaulted within our own walls.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_24]: Within our own beds.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_24]: I will not be seen as weak.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_24]: You're already seen as weak Egon.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_25]: A hasty coronation, a dragon escaping the pit.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_25]: The people see an omen.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_25]: They whisper in the streets they say perhaps Renera should be queen.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_25]: And so you would name her monster slayer of infants.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_25]: I would do more than that.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_25]: A funeral progress.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_25]: Let them see the child.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_25]: Let them look upon the works of this pretender to the throne.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Egon's so unstable you know.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_10]: I kind of feel like alright you can catch more of his sugar than you can a stick at this moment.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_24]: I will not have my little son's body dragged through the street like a dead dog.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_24]: Not dragged on that.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_25]: Escorted to the dragon pit to be burned as a Targaryen prince.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_12]: Your grace.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_25]: No!

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_07]: We never saw that part of the funeral.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_25]: Let no one say I do not grieve.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_25]: Jaehaerys was my grandson.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_25]: I loved him.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_25]: I will not have him die in vain.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_25]: Those who declared for Renera, will they still support her when they hear of her depravity?

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_25]: Or will they rather not renounce her?

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_25]: Jaehaerys will do more for us now than a thousand nights in battle.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_07]: He's just sobbing at this point isn't he?

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_25]: You will have your war, your grace.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_25]: But if you wait a short time, you may yet double your strength.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Mother?

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah and he turns to Alisson at this point showing his real mummy issues.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_16]: The hand sets in a difficult path.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_16]: My darling but it might be the right one.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_25]: Let the silent sisters ready the prince for his final journey.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_25]: And riding behind him his mother the queen and with her the queen dowager.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_10]: I see what you're doing here Otto.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_25]: The realm must see the sorrow of the crown.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_25]: The sorrow best expressed through its most gentle souls.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_25]: I think you'll all agree the king himself must be spared.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_10]: So you know the egg one doesn't want is a little son dragged through the street like a dead dog is his words.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_23]: No.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_10]: And he's always broken him down but he hasn't agreed yet.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_22]: No.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_10]: And when he looks to Alisson and he's like mother I think all takes his cue to go if I send Alisson he'll let him go.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_10]: He'll let him go with Alisson.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_10]: So that's it checkmate.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah yeah definitely.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Like last protector kind of you know because he's still such a mummies boy at heart.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah and she said I like I still have sway over him for now.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah definitely.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_10]: And Otto is so clever he uses everything he sees something immediately in the moment and is able to just use it.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes yeah he's super quick.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Need this man at job interviews he's fantastic for that.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh thank you how nice of you.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_07]: You know I think it's hilarious as like Rhys Evans is primarily a comedy actor.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_22]: Eyeball Paul.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know that one was that.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_10]: It's from Kevin and Perry.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh right no I don't remember that.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_10]: And he was in Twin Town absolutely years ago do you remember that?

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Vaguely like it's one of those things I've seen him kicking around on my TV but never really been absorbed.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Annie McPhee in the Big Bang.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_07]: But he's so funny but he's just playing this straight you know the straight acting role and he's knocking it out of the park.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_07]: He was really really good as much as we hate Otto we love Rhys Evans.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_07]: He's so good.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Did you have anything else on that matter?

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_10]: On the funeral procession?

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that the location was amazing.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes so this is their extended, it started from the doors of the Red Keep which is their extended set.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I think they go for about six streets or something like that from the keep all the way out and that's still the set.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_07]: It's so cool.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And then from there on we're actually in the streets of Spain.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Locations Emma?

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Caseres and Trujillo is where they were.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Excellent and it's just, it feels so real.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_07]: To think that you're in a modern day Spanish city or town.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it feels like this medieval type city.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_07]: It's crazy.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Behind the scene I think it was Emily Carey had said she didn't feel like she had to act.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes that's what I was just going to say.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_10]: Because it felt so real being there and she'd said that they did have quite a laugh although it was a really heartfelt scene.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_10]: It was difficult but they did have such a giggle.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_07]: As soon as the camera stopped rolling they were just having a laugh.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_07]: They were singing show tunes.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is great. I love that.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_07]: No one's taking it all too seriously because you can't take your work home with you like that.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_07]: No unless you're a method actor.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_07]: No I know and it must be, I often think about this when I'm watching really intense dramatic scenes.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially really intense dramatic scenes involving children.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think well they're really going for it there.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And that wee kid, well it's not their real mummy and daddy but they're picking up on some really intense vibes there.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Even though it's all acting.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_07]: They're too young to process.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And I often think that like scenes with young children and that.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_07]: But it stands for just people as well when they're acting out this really emotional stuff.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_07]: You must still feel a little bit of that after which is probably why you start bursting into show tunes.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_07]: To lighten the mood.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah it's a good work ethic I would say to just jump out of the emotional stuff and into.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Hi, we could have been anything we wanted to be.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah so.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_07]: That's all I've got on that.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Right okay.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_07]: What can we talk about next?

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_07]: How about the small folk perspective?

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm loving that.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm loving because we never ever really got that in Game of Thrones.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I think the closest we came to the small folks perspective was maybe Gendry and Hop High.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Through Aria.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_07]: But again they were just a couple of small folk in the big folk story.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas this I feel we were actually getting in there.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_07]: We're getting to meet just a couple of average small folk and seeing their troubles and their worries and the money issues that they're having.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So the markets are running low because Rhaenidh and that have blocked the gullet.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's starting to affect the citizens of King's Landing because the city's not out of food yet but the castle are hoarding it.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_10]: No and the I mean yes the greens and the blacks have dragons but what they need is the support of the small folk.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_10]: So this is like Otto's perspective here.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_10]: He's like we need these people to be on our side.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_10]: They can't hate you.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_10]: They have to hate her.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe you should have thought about that when talking about when Miss Arya brought up the fighting pits last season.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But you know just typical of Otto who just puts something to the side then come up with later like it was his own idea.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_07]: When it's relevant and when it suits him.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah we've got this scene with Hugh and his family.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a cost of living crisis in the King's Landing.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Chickens cost five times what they usually do.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Sounds like the same as when he's down the street.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah we've also got this scene with Aiman with the sex worker and she delivers that fantastic line.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I would remind you that when princes lose their temper it's often others that suffer.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_07]: True story.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Like the small folk like me.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just loving that we're getting just a little bit more of the average Joe's opinion on what's going on here because this is how far this family squabble is going to reach.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It affects everybody in the entire kingdom.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Small folk, peasants.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Chickens.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Chickens.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_10]: Rats and dogs like literally.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Ah yeah definitely.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean like the rats will be happier because there's a lot less rat catchers.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes there's definitely a lot less rat catchers.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Actually let's talk about that because I was kind of done on that one anyway.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_07]: So let's talk about the rat catchers.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_07]: That was kind of brutal.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_07]: That was horrific.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_07]: It really was.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_10]: That was a mega, mega bad move.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_07]: So was. It really, really was.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_07]: What I do, one of my standout moments from that scene actually was Cheezy's dog.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Just sitting and staring up and it reminded me of Grey Friars Bobby.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Bear with my second.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I have some notes on Bobby just for people that don't know who Bobby is.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_07]: So Bobby was the dog of a gentleman named John Grey in the 19th century.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_07]: After John Grey died, Bobby sat on his grave for 14 years until he died in January 1872.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And Bobby is buried at Grey Friars Kirk quite near John to this day and there's a beautiful statue of him outside which of course being from Edinburgh me and Emma both know but for those of you that don't.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, just looking at that little dog staring up at Cheezy I just thought, oh, Grey Friars Bobby.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_07]: So back to the rat catchers.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_10]: So this was really cool in the making of it.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Alright.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_10]: It was a mixture of real actors and prosthetics.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_10]: So the real actors were hoisted up on hoists.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah, seeing this in the Dragon's Bell.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Did you see in it that Danny Gulliver, one of the producers, is one of the prosthetics?

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, I'd forgotten that actually.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_10]: So that's really awesome.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_07]: That was very cool.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_07]: In that world actually they've been quite good at just using what they have around them.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_07]: They cast the stunt coordinator as the Night King in Game of Thrones.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_07]: He was actually the stunt coordinator.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And when they came around to cast in the Night King they were like, it's got to be you.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh that's so cool.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, if there's talent on set they use it.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_08]: Brilliant.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I love that.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Very cool.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I seem to have gone to the wrong notes.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me go back to the right notes.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_07]: There we go.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So, back to, in regards to the rat catchers.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Like you say, really, really cool how that was created.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean in the book there's a hundred rat catchers that are hanged.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_10]: So it doesn't display that when we see it on screen.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_10]: But it implies.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_07]: You're seeing one section of wall but they were hung from many walls.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And it was a rash decision.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It was very, very, very rash.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_10]: And there's family crying.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_10]: It's really sad.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_07]: It is.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean how many, so many innocent people just.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean they got cheese but.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Well yeah, they did.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_07]: They got cheese because blood spilt.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Did you see what I did there?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_20]: Yep, see what you did there.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Which in itself was a really funny scene actually.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Where he was just like.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I wrote in my notes somewhere.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not on that bit there but I think I wrote in my notes.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_08]: That is like, oh, I really wanted to torture you.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Because he's just like, we did this.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Damon told me to do it and blah, blah, blah.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And he said, yes, I know I was with this guy.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_08]: He was a rat catcher.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, dammit, I wanted to torture you.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Spilled.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, obviously he just totally crumbled.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And then got his head caved in.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Which I loved that.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It was cool actually because that was during the funeral procession.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It was cut in between that.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Along with the beat of the drum.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the beat of the drum was going along with Aegon smashing in blood skull.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Brutal.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_07]: But then of course this leads to this shocking choice about hanging all the rat catchers in order to get the right one.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, no investigation necessary.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But we have Otto's response to that.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I have that clip and we have to play it because in my opinion it was the best scene of the episode.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he was absolutely a few men.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_10]: So let's have a listen to that.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_25]: What have you done?

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_23]: Uh oh, you're in trouble.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: The rat catchers!

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh shit.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I had them hanged.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_05]: The maggot who took my son confessed to an accomplice.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_05]: He could not say for certain which man it was.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_25]: Idiot!

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Beware how you speak to your king, my lord.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_25]: The king is my grandson and my grandson is a fool!

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_24]: He's worse than a fool!

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_24]: He's murdered innocent men!

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_24]: And one guilty one.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_24]: And hand them from the walls of the city for all to see!

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_24]: Plot against the king and I will pay it back a hundred...

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_24]: They are fathers and brothers and sons!

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_25]: And their wives and children gather now at our gates to weep and curse your name!

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_25]: Oh god.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_25]: With your child's blood we bought their approval.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_25]: With your mother's tears we made a bitter sacrifice against the deprivations to come and you've thrown it away.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_25]: After all I've done for you, thoughtless, feckless, self-indulgent...

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_05]: At least I did something.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I have not answered injury to the crown with...

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_05]: What?

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Wailing.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Currying favour with the fishwives.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_25]: I will not be thought weak.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_25]: Even now news of Runira's monstrous crime spreads through the realm.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_25]: The great houses falter.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_25]: They cannot but come to our side.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_25]: I wish to spill blood, not ink!

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_24]: We must act!

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Sir Christian Cole has acted.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yes he has.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And what a deck move it was.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I just love that scene.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh don't be so angry.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_08]: He is.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean I had lots of comments there but he didn't let me get a word in.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_08]: And by the time we got a lull in the conversation I'd forgotten all of them because I was just like...

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, we're a bit shell shocked here.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_10]: He's acted so well.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_10]: I felt like I was getting a telling off.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah that's exactly what I meant.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_08]: By the time we got to a break in the conversation I felt like I was so well scolded I forgot everything that I wanted to say.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah he gave it his all.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_07]: He was so angry.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I loved that scene.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_07]: That was just so brilliant.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's more to it.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean the whole scene in itself was six minutes long.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought let's break it up a little bit because it's just Otto's reaction to what Kristen's done is just as priceless.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So shall we listen to that too?

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah let's do that.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_25]: And what has Sir Kristen Cole done?

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh the venom.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: He sent Sir Eric to slay Renearer.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Alone.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_05]: He's pretending to be his own twin. Brilliant.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_07]: He doesn't sound convinced.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_04]: God's help is all.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It's time the bitch queen paid a price.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh piss off.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Well I'm just stuck a heat in last night.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_25]: And you acceded to this prank without consulting all the council.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_25]: Instead of judgment you display impetuousness and diminish us in the eyes of our enemy ill considered trifling.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_25]: You never think of your father.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_25]: Forbearance is.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_26]: Judiciousness is.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_26]: Dignity.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_26]: Fuck dignity.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_26]: I want revenge.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_26]: My father is dead.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_25]: He is.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_25]: And we are the poorer for it.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_25]: Oh yes, yes you are.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah however I think he struck a nerve there.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh he definitely does.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It is no surprise that the conversation ended the way it did.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_07]: He really let rip and while he was justified in everything that he was saying I think he forgot he was speaking to a king.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Whether it be his grandson or not.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're not going to get away with that.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Not when he is in the state that he is in.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_07]: He is grieving he is not capable of making rational decisions.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean he wasn't to begin with.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_07]: No he wasn't but at least he was being guided.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_07]: But now because of his emotions and his rage that he is off the leash basically.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely it's channeling into his deep rooted daddy issue of being second fiddle to Ranira.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_10]: He just felt like his dad never paid him enough attention.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_10]: And you really see him loving Jeherus and putting all that effort into his son.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Bringing him to the small council and removing him from his studies.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_10]: He really loves his son and he wants to make the relationship with his son something he never had with his own father.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_10]: And this has been taken away from him so he is furious.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah definitely.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_10]: And then Otto strikes that nerve by saying remember your father.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_10]: Abort abort.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah absolutely and then he takes it that one step further and he goes and says he chose me.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he just laughs in his face.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_07]: He's like is that what you think?

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have that?

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah actually I do have the rest of the clip.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_25]: He was right about you.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh shit.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_25]: Oh aye.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_25]: He made me king.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that what you think?

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I just love that incredulous laugh.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_10]: I think this is a tipping point for him.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh definitely.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Remove your badge.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_10]: So Otto.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_07]: He just went that one step too far and he sees it all over Otto's face.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_07]: He just goes oh fuck.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Should I just shut up like two sentences ago and it would have been alright.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh he would.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah that's Egon getting off on the power.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Now he's starting to enjoy this role.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And I suppose the grief that he's feeling he has this way to channel it.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_10]: It's pushed him hasn't it?

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it's made certainly.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean it doesn't mean that he's ready to make the right decisions but he's certainly ready to make some.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah and it's what Alison said.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_10]: She said he listens to me for now.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_10]: She knew it was going to come.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_10]: And this has been the tipping point.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Well yeah I mean we saw in the previous scene that he was still like mum what do I do?

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Now Otto's hit the daddy button and he's just lost it.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Well that brings me to his mummy issues because he's got some of those too.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Alison's definitely his go-to.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_07]: How many times have we heard him ask for his mummy or cry for his mummy or whatever now.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_07]: She's definitely his go-to.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_07]: But we see the scene at the end when Alison walks into his room and he's sobbing his heart out.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_07]: He's absolutely broken and I was shouting at the screen.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_08]: Hug him!

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_08]: Just give him a hug!

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah come on.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean what is wrong with her?

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_10]: It's her guilt.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_10]: It's her guilt.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_10]: She can't hug him because she blames herself for his grief.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_10]: She thinks if I hadn't been with with Kristin Cole, Johanna would still be alive.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_10]: And Aegon wouldn't be going through this right now.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_10]: This is my fault.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe not.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe it would have happened anyway.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah but I think that's for me watching that that's how I interpreted her reaction.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah yeah definitely.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_07]: What did you think?

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought pretty much the same to be honest with you.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_07]: She just couldn't deal with it in that moment.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_07]: But I was willing her to just get past it.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Please get past it and just give him a hug.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_07]: He fucking needs you right now more than anything.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And not just from the mother perspective of hug your crying child,

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_07]: which is definitely the bigger part of my thoughts on this Marr.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_07]: But there's also the pragmatic part,

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_07]: which is this is your moment to create a bond with him again.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_07]: To be able to keep him under control to a certain extent

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_07]: and be able to keep him from making these rash decisions.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_07]: He's now pulling away and she's letting him go.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah I wonder, I don't know playing devil's advocate in this situation,

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_10]: not my personal perspective on it but would she be,

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_10]: he's king, he makes decisions.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not there to pick him up, he needs to pick himself up.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Not through this?

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_10]: No no absolutely not.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_10]: But I wonder if that played a part in it because she's left quite a solitary life when it comes to feelings.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah she's had to live with her own feelings.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_10]: So there may be that element of this is a process you have to go through.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_10]: You're a man and you're a king and it's your responsibility.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah you could be onto something there.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_07]: But these mummy issues aren't, they aren't exclusive to Agon.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Eamon seems to have some mummy issues on him so.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean what's going on there the way he's curled up in her lap.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_07]: In the fetal position.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly and she's stroking his hair and he's really needing his mum right now.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_07]: He fucked up, he fucked up big time and it's his mum that he wants to be saying I don't really mean that.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I just lost my temper and I do feel bad about it.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And all she's got is criticism.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah because she's so fucking angry that he spilt first blood in a war that she was trying to prevent.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's absolutely right to be angry with him because he did a really shitty thing.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_10]: But we know as mothers when your kid does something wrong it's okay to give them a hug and guide them through it.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_10]: You don't leave them standing on their own.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Well I'm a firm believer in the way we have to guide and teach our children.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't just expect that when they get to a certain age that they should know stuff because they're a certain age.

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm meant to be a proper grown up.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_10]: I still look for an adult in the room.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Is there a grown up here? Oh wait, shit that's me.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Damn it!

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_10]: We're all fucked now.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_07]: My favourite T-shirt says I don't know how to act my age, I've never been this old before.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But that's it.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_07]: He needs his mum.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_07]: He fucked up and he's sorry.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And while he's got to play the part of, well it happened, I did it, in the public eye.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_07]: He needs to have that moment with Alison that he's having with the sex worker.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe not naked in the fetal position, but maybe the fetal position but not so much for the naked.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_07]: But this is what you need.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean it is symbolism of being in the womb though isn't it?

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It is, yeah absolutely.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_07]: And she tries to get a wee bit frisky for a moment and he's like no not here.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Because that's not what he was there for.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean they'd obviously been up to something because he was naked.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_07]: But he was there for comfort, not for sex.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just felt like the mummy issues were oozing through while Aegon's having mummy and daddy issues.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And it was quite hard to watch.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I feel for them, I feel for them both.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And you know, Aiman's turning out to be quite a dark character but Lairs.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_07]: We're seeing Lairs, where there's Lairs to all of them.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_07]: You know last season Aegon just seemed like a bit of a drunken prat.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_07]: This season he's got so many more Lairs.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so sorry, I can't hear Lairs without thinking of Donkey and Shrek.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Like an onion? What do you mean you're sinking and make people cry?

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, I love those Eddie Murphy moments.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_07]: No one delivers a line like Eddie Murphy.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Have you seen there's a new Beverly Hills cop on Netflix?

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh please no.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_07]: There is a new one, a new new new new new like new just out one.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_10]: No I don't, no.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_10]: I say this every time something comes up, I go no no no and I protest against it.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_10]: And then I watch it.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_10]: And then I watch it and I'm like oh it was actually really good.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_10]: But just initially as an 80s kid I have to go no no no.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_07]: See I don't know, it's like I found that Eddie Murphy movies I don't know are just lacking something that they had back then.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_07]: It was probably the Coke.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_07]: But I just don't get the same belly chuckles from Eddie Murphy that I used to get in the 80s and 90s.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe it's maybe it's his age, maybe it's our age, maybe it's just the lack of cocaine.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Who knows?

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Well I'll probably check it out at some point and decide from there.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I did watch the the sequel of Coming to America that he did like last year or the year before.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh no I didn't even know that. No that's one of my favourite movies ever.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_07]: No is it good?

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_07]: It was quite good actually.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I got a lot, I got more laughs out of it than anything else he's done in the last 10-15 years prior to that.

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe it was just because I was getting that Coming to America nostalgia and I might get the same with Beverly Hills Cop too.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_10]: And I love the accent that they put on like being from Zaminda which they're not.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_10]: So not.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_10]: Well in real life they're not.

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean when I was a kid I would do the voice. There's no way I'm doing the voice now. That's not okay.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_10]: But I can hear him in my head and it just makes me giggle so much.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_07]: They were good movies and like I said the sequel is alright.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_10]: His co-star that played Simi also absolutely fantastic. He was hilarious.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_10]: He was in it too.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh brilliant. I'm going to have to watch it now.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah really good. So I might have to check out the Beverly Hills Cop one as well because Eddie's funny.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, tangent.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Tangent over guys.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Check it out if you haven't seen it.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But if you don't know the franchise from back then it's probably not for you.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a nostalgia thing. Like Cobra Kai.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Cobra Kai is back.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, moving on before I go off in a Cobra Kai tangent.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Some of these guys could do with the teachings of Mr. Miyagi I'm telling you.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Was that the best way to win fight? No be there.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_20]: True story.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I must have done that.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh so good.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_07]: So where were we?

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Mothers and mummy issues and daddy issues. I think we were done on that though.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Well I think we just did a couple of tangents there and I'm not sure whose turn it is now so let's just go with yours.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_07]: What would you like to talk about next?

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a really cool Rainies and Corlys scene.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh I clipped it.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yay. Of course I clipped it. It's Rainies.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_07]: You know how I love a Rainies moment.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_14]: He's up well with him. Where he goes, he wishes to be his own master.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_19]: It's all true.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_19]: He is the King Consort.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_15]: But he is not the King.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_19]: Neither am I. But I manage.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_15]: I too have felt the crown pass over me. It is a hard thing to accept.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_15]: And now that Cerys is dead and all claims are in doubt.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_19]: You don't think Daemon will challenge her?

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh I think he would.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh she's such.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_14]: That neither can he allow it.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_19]: Pity. I have an occasion found that to be quite enjoyable.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh we love Corlys.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I love their relationship.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_13]: Let us take his word.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_13]: If he can take Harrenhal all may well be forgiven.

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_13]: In the meantime I am here.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_13]: And Mayleith.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_13]: They will not let the Queen falter.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_07]: She's a little scared.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_07]: She is. She knows what's coming.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Fire and blood.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely. But I love that conversation.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_07]: It kind of just sums up the Daemon situation.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_07]: It really does.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Because he is in a fucked up place.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_07]: He is totally capable of challenging her.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah he is capable of challenging her but Rhaenys is right.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_10]: He won't as such.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_10]: But he will try and bully her and dominate her.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's something that Corlys has never done to Rhaenys.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_10]: And he basically says that.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's like why can't it be more like me?

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, why can't it be more like you Corlys?

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly. Why can't they all be more like you?

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh dear.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah I love that scene. It is great.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And carry on that tradition of always giving Rhaenys a clip.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Was there any other notes on the Corlys and Rhaenys?

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_07]: No. Just that they're the loveliest couple.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_07]: They are. They are by far the loveliest couple in Westeros.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I dare anyone to challenge them for that title.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_07]: So my turn.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see what have we got that we have not discussed yet.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_07]: It's mainly all the black stuff now isn't it?

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Well let's talk about the talk.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Because that was brilliant.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_07]: But prior to the talk there was a small council meeting.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_07]: The black council.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Which led into the talk.

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm going to play that clip because I thought it was quite an irritant.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_21]: It is yet unclear how the keep itself was breached.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_21]: The boy's head was severed from his body.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_21]: Thousands witnessed the procession.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_18]: And they are accusing me of having a hand in this.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_21]: It appears so.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_21]: There have been messages sent to that effect throughout the realm.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_18]: We must send our own messages.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_18]: Denying this vile allegation.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_21]: I will do so at once.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_21]: But I'm not sure they will be received in good faith.

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_18]: And we must double our guard here and in Driftmark.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_18]: There will be swift retribution in one form or another.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_18]: I have seen to it your grace.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_18]: Let me fly out on Vermax.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_18]: Renise is needed in the gullet and I can watch for movements from King's Landing.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_07]: No, you're grounded.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It must be said that the damage to our position is immeasurable.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_01]: At a time when we most need loyalty to our cause.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_18]: But it's a lie.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_18]: Having lost my own son.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_18]: That I would inflict such a thing.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_18]: On Helena of all people.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_18]: An innocent.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh dear.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Other people don't see it that way though.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_12]: No.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_12]: The death of Prince Lucerys was a shock and an insult.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_12]: A mother so aggrieved might naturally seek relief in retribution.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_18]: Are you suggesting, Salford, that my grief drove me to order the decapitation of a child?

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_12]: I merely thought perhaps an action taken in haste.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_13]: Mind yourself.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_13]: Go on Renise.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So good.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And she has this moment and she sits down and she's looking at Damon and then she's like,

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Wait a minute.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It was fucking you.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_07]: You twat.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_07]: So during that clip it's that moment when the guy's like,

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, your grace, we know you didn't do it.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_07]: But if you did.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_08]: No I bloody didn't.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_08]: But if you did, we would understand.

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_08]: She's absolutely outraged.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_08]: She's like, I can't believe you're standing here saying this to me.

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And who can blame her because,

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: from her perspective, if I was accused of such a thing I'd be outraged too.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But to the world outside,

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_07]: they just take away things the way they're presented to them.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely. And Otto has presented it beautifully from his perspective.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely. That was some top-notch propaganda.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And of course people are going to believe it.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_07]: In fact, one of my favourite book series is The Sword of Truth novels.

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_07]: The first book is called Wizard's First Drill.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And in every book there's a new Wizard's Second Drill, Wizard's Third Drill etc.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_07]: But Wizard's First Drill is that people will believe anything,

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_07]: either because they feel it might be true or because they want it to be true.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And every time I've read that passage in the book or thought of that passage in the book,

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like, that's actually really true for life.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It really is. It comes up again and again and again.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, people will believe anything either because they want it to be true

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_07]: or because they feel it might be true.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And this is the case with the propaganda that Otto has thrown out there

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_07]: to the point that even Ranira's own small council are like,

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_07]: but if you did...

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Poor Ranira.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh totally. So this then leads on to this moment when Ranira looks at Damon

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_07]: and sits down and she's like,

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_07]: it was you. You did it.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And you just see this moment of realization come over her face

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's absolutely priceless.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_07]: But then we just jump straight into the full blown argument

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's absolutely brilliant.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm going to play the first part of that because it was a long chat.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_18]: Did you send assassins to murder children in their beds?

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_27]: I sent the Queen's Vengeance for her son.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_18]: The Queen's Vengeance? What did you say to him?

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_18]: Damon, for the boy lies dead and I am accused of killing it.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_27]: Miss Arya provided me with names in a subterfuge.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_27]: I was clear in my instructions.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_27]: Aemond, the brother of Egg on the Usurper.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_27]: I cannot be responsible for a mistake.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_18]: Cannot be responsible? If Aemond was not to be found,

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_18]: what were your instructions then?

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_28]: They did not concern in any way that of the little child.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_18]: You said that it was your aim to spill Hightower blood.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_18]: And if not Aemond, then anyone would do.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_18]: No.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_18]: You have wounded me, weakened my claim to the throne,

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_18]: my ability to raise an army, my standing among my own council.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_27]: I said no.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't believe you.

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_10]: And quite rightly so.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, absolutely. He is not believable.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_10]: No, and he is lying because he said a son for a son.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, absolutely.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_07]: It was the way he was smirking through the small council meeting as well.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_07]: That's why she knew. It was him. She was smart.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Even his little chuckle in this conversation.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_10]: I cannot trust you, Damon.

[00:58:07] Just...

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_18]: I've never trusted you wholly.

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_18]: Much though I wished to, willed myself to.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_18]: But now I have seen that your heart belongs only to you.

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_18]: And when I was a child, I took this as a challenge.

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_18]: But I am old enough. I have challenges. Enough!

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I have served you faithfully.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_18]: Have you?

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_18]: Well, have you used me as a tool with which to grasp at your stolen inheritance?

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Again, this is like the Otto and Egon conversation.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_10]: She's really touched a nerve there.

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_07]: She's really growing up.

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what it says.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_26]: When Sir Eric brought you the crown, did I myself not place it upon your brow?

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_18]: You were thought to lead a council of war while I laboured alone in my bedchamber,

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_18]: and afterward when I thought it meet to consider the terms of both...

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Bolly! To give up my brother's throne to the traitorous lies of our time!

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_18]: My throne! Damon! Mine!

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_18]: I think you used my words as an excuse to take her in revenge.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_18]: You're right.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_18]: To indulge the darkness you keep sheathed within you like a blade.

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_28]: You fig me some kind of monster.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, I don't know what to think of you. I don't know what you are or who it is you serve.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not on my way even now to Harrenhal to raise an army in your name or in era. Yours!

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that was a bit gaslighty.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_10]: Yep. Yeah, absolutely. He's totally gaslighting her.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Big time. He's not taking responsibility for anything.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_07]: He's throwing things back in her face that are absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_07]: His face completely gave him away. There's just no getting out of it.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_07]: She saw right through it.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he's so immature.

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Really, really, really, really immature and narcissistic.

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_07]: There's just so much going on there that's just like, Damon we used to like you.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, what happened?

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_10]: You fucked it love.

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_07]: He really did. Gave in his bad boy impulses. And we liked his bad boy impulses.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_10]: Before he was murdering children. I mean, to be fair he was murdering women before that.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I think roughly around the time he murdered his wife, it started to fall off a bit.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_07]: But he still had a few moments for me after that in which I liked him.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_07]: But it was nice to see the Damon smirk again.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_07]: But maybe for the wrong reasons at this time.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he storms out spitting the dummy afterwards and ignoring Bela.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_07]: But he's just stroppy the whole way through it.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I love the conversation. It was like a three act play.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_07]: We have the first part which is regarding the murder.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the second part got really personal.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_07]: It was about their relationship.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the third part is about the hierarchy.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_07]: It's about, you know, I'm the boss. Do you accept this?

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I love the way that conversation went.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_07]: There was a lot of three act play things going on in a few conversations in this episode.

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Very long scenes.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_07]: But we really got into the grip of these characters.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Their thoughts, their feelings, their emotions, their angers are all bubbling to the surface.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_07]: They're all letting rip. It's great episodes.

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely. And the pauses are just as important as the dialogue in this episode.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_10]: Harder for us with the clips.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes. Because it's the faces and the size and the shoulder shrugs.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But we've got the listeners covered with our reactions.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely. And you all saw the episode too. You know what's going on there.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can almost close your eyes when you're listening and you can see it playing out in your head.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. And like we've said before, it's a different experience when you're listening to the audio than actually watching it.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_10]: It's often more powerful.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_07]: The dialogue becomes so much more intense.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I think when you're watching, you take in the whole scene.

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. And that could be anything from the carvings on Helena's wall behind her that can distract you.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But when you're just listening to the audio, you listen to every word and hang on every word.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. Even the breaths and the footsteps. Everything seems important.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And the door slams. I don't think I even noticed the door slam when I watched the scene, but whoa, it was loud.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, it's great. I do love just having a little moment with just the audio and reliving those clips in my head.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It's great. So who's turning to that?

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's my turn.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Excellent. What do you want to talk about next?

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lovely moment with Jason Bela.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah. Loved it.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_10]: And they're so honest with each other. You really see the strength in their relationship.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. And I loved it. Unlike the rest of the three act plays that were going on throughout the Shakespearean dialogue.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_07]: I was missing from this scene and it was just two teenagers talking. They were talking normally.

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_10]: They were with such honesty. And they're total bulls. Bela's bitching about her dad.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes I think I hate him, she says.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. She's totally justified.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_07]: He's like stormed out on Renina raging, walked right past her and completely ignored her. She's like, dad. And he just keeps walking.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. There's a moment where Jason almost admits that Harwin Strong is his father and it's the first time you ever see that admitted.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it was the unspoken thing. They were both very clear of it. That that's what they were talking about. It was an open conversation without actually saying it.

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. And he's not offended in any way. No. You just see the level of honesty and love that they have for each other, which is just so nice.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. I love the love that he has for Lainore too. That was really beautiful too. When he first starts talking about it, oh, he did this and that.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I was like, which one is he talking about? And then it's like, right, Lainore. And then we talk about Harwin.

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just thought it was just so touching to just have this moment. And it was also awesome watching Bela with the crossbow being badass.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_10]: On the subject of Bela, she's also given a task, which is really cool. Before this, she's told to go on Moondancer and essentially do some scouting.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes. Which she's just like, yes, brilliant.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely. But what is that? Oh, yeah, I have the quote here actually. What Jase said about his dad. He says he loved us, I think.

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_10]: And then I miss Luke. Yeah. Because he was the only other person that he could have that honesty with.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Joffrey's too young. Yeah. Yeah. And they knew. They knew. They just, they can't admit it or they're bastards.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. Your turn. What you got? My turn. I would like to talk about Adam of Hull.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Cool. There's actually a couple of things I want to talk about Adam of Hull about, but one of them I will save for the dragon section.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_07]: But the first part is when we see him with his brother and they have this conversation.

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm just going to say it right now. These are Carlisle's bastard sons. Yeah. That is, that's the vibe I'm completely getting.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_07]: He says to serve with a sea snake is to make your fortune. Had I such a chance, I would leap at it.

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And his brother says, that's because you haven't seen what I've seen. There's a war brewing Adam, a real one.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And then a wee bit of back and forward between them. And he's like, but brother, he owes you. He owes us. Yeah.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And why else would he owe him if not for, I mean, I have not read this far ahead in the book. I am calling this now.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_10]: He could be referring to saving his life because Alan saved his life. But that doesn't include Adam.

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_10]: So it has to be something else. He owes you, fair enough. He owes us. That infers something different.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And we talked about this in the last episode that there was something between Adam and Carlisle, something unspoken.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like they've just laid it out on a plate for us here. Yeah.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_07]: This is what's going on here. So interesting to see how this develops.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm thinking these guys are older, I think older than Leonor.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. So I'm thinking this is not an affair. This is pre-Rainies. Pre-Rainies. Yeah.

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely. So I can't wait to see how this unfolds.

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: We've got a wee bit more about Adam, but we'll save that for dragons. So it's your turn.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_10]: So we always mention new characters in our show. And this is actually the first time we've properly seen Adam.

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_10]: And he's played by Clinton Liberty. Ah, yeah.

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_10]: He was the voice for Flix the dog in a children's program called Flix.

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_10]: So he was like the main good for that. He was also in Touchdown, which comes out in August.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh. So check that out because we only have a few weeks until August.

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, God, really? We're that far into the year aren't we? We really are.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh dear. So the other wee sidey plot we've got is Mysaria again.

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes. Well, this is really interesting. I love the scene. Let me bring up my notes on Mysaria.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: What did you want to say about Mysaria while I find them?

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_10]: I find her character really fascinating and I love that they have totally ran with her character because in the books she didn't have this big of a role.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Right. So I love the bit that she has with Ranira.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_10]: So they're having a chat and I think Mysaria feels once again she's trapped.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_10]: And they have this chat and Ranira really tells her story and lets Mysaria say her piece.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's lovely for Mysaria to see that Ranira, she's a good ruler. She's a good person.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_10]: She actually would bring the best for the small folk. She's not a shit.

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_10]: She's also not being brought into the world the way that Hickon has.

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_10]: So I mean we know we hate on the Greens a bit but it's kind of not his fault being as shit as he is.

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_10]: And she has this horrible story of everything she had being burnt down and destroyed by Otto Hightower.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_07]: He did not like it when I showed my teeth.

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think Ranira really respects her. And I think she really respects Ranira in that moment.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I think there definitely is. There's the moment before when, before they get to that point when Ranira realises who Mysaria is.

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a stare.

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes. She says, she's talking about Damon and she's like oh where is he? And she's like oh he's gone.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's like he does that doesn't he?

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And then she just like stops and there's the stare like you say.

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you remember me now.

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's it. The penny drops with Ranira and she realises who she is. I love that moment.

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But I just, I like the way Mysaria played it. And she was just like he does that doesn't he?

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah. When you're done with your man and then you bump into his ex that hates him.

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_10]: It's that moment.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, definitely. And there's like the last thing the man wants is for those two to have a conversation.

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Well maybe you shouldn't have fucked off then.

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Truth on that. She is skipping to a different scene but like Ranira's great and she's like look go away.

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Go to Pentos and do your thing dude. And you just be you. Like off you go.

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_10]: And she's being escorted down there and she sees, she sees Eric.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_10]: And she's like oh wait a minute.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_10]: I just left Eric.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_10]: Like double take, hold on, stop a second. Oh shit that's not right.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_07]: No because the last thing Ranira said to her was said Eric take Mysaria to her quarters to get her stuff.

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And then have someone take her down to the boat.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So he had obviously taken her to her room and then she's went straight to the boat. How could he have got there so quickly?

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_10]: I did like the way that they cut the scene and it made me go did she go back? Did she tell them? Did she tell someone else to go tell them?

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Did she just go? Did she think fuck it I've lost enough shit. I'm not getting involved in anybody else's bullshit.

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Because who could blame her?

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's what she did. I think she went oh maybe nah fuck that. I've already lost everything. Fuck this I'm going. I could lose my life so I'm going.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah and who could blame her if that was the choice she made?

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_07]: But she didn't. She came back.

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And she let them know and well spotted.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Well spotted indeed.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah she's lived this life though where she's had to be observant. She's had to watch over her shoulder. She's survived. She's a survivor.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_07]: The scar?

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_07]: How did you get the scar? And she's not going to talk about that.

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_07]: That is obviously a very, very painful memory.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_10]: She's a great character though. I'm really enjoying her character.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I'm enjoying her too actually. And I like it. Like you say she didn't pay this big a part in the book so I like where they've placed her when they've decided to keep her going.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely kudos to the writers. Brilliant.

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_07]: The placement is excellent. Did you have any other notes on her?

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: No that was it. Did you?

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_07]: No. No. I just thought both scenes with her and Ranira were great.

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And well spotted on the Cargils.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And I suppose that leaves us with talking about the Cargils.

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_07]: The fight.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_07]: The fight indeed. It was.

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_07]: This was long awaited.

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_07]: It was. It was heavily foreshadowed last season when we got that scene when they were trying to find Aegon and they were very conflicted. You could see mostly Eric wanted to, he was conflicted.

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Eric was listening to him and he was hearing what he was saying but Eric more leaned towards honouring the vow that he'd already made.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And they've went their separate ways. It was inevitable that these guys were going to fight.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean quite rightly so though. They made a promise and a vow to one family.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't, it was said I'm not sure where but.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Last episode.

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't their fault that the family split apart.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. So when they all start fighting each other what am I supposed to do I think he said, Eric said in the last episode. And here's Eric as well and I don't think we gave that enough aid earlier that part of the conversation with him and Kristen Cole.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Kristen sends him on this suicide mission because let's face it that's what it is. Whether he makes it and actually manages to carry out his task as soon as he's done it the game is up. He will be caught and he will be killed.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So it is a suicide mission and he's outraged by it. He's, but he also swore a vow to obey the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

[01:15:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that honor is a very strong theme here with these brothers.

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_07]: They are very, very honorable men. They just saw things differently in this one moment. One of them decided to go with who he thought was the better option, the right option because of what he had seen of Aegon.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And he thought Aegon was not a good person. He was not right for the throne. So he made a choice based on his opinion.

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And Eric made a choice based on the vow he'd made. And other than that I don't think they differ that much.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I think they're both very, very honorable and the fact that they ended up in this situation is devastating really. It was sad. It was very, very, very sad to watch.

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_10]: The fight scene itself was fucking brilliant. It was choreographed amazingly, wasn't it?

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_07]: The fight was outstanding. It was so clever. Some inside information that we got from the making off. But I love that they matched their wounds so it was harder to tell them apart.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I actually followed it quite well, I would say. First watch I was like, I don't know who's who. But I figured it out by the end. But second watch through it I feel like, yeah, I followed that.

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I was quite sure who was getting pummeled at what time.

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_10]: So looking at Elliot Tittensor that play Eric and Eric, they filmed the whole thing. They did that whole fight scene apart from one bit.

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_10]: So it was Rowley Erlen that's the choreographer and he absolutely refused for them to do the bit smashing into the pot. So that was Eddie the stunt guy that did that one bit.

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_10]: But no, those guys did that whole thing. They practiced it for absolutely weeks. So fantastic. In the behind the scenes video, I think it was Luke that had said they have a martial arts background.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_10]: I couldn't find anything to say what kind of martial arts but that's really awesome. Well done lads and good on you. Good on you for doing your own stunts as far as you're allowed.

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know what I'm absolutely ashamed of myself for is the fact that it's taken me till the episode that they both die to realize who the hell they were.

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Because they both played Carl and Shameless. And it's just like, do you know every time I've seen them on screen and also on interviews and behind the scenes stuff and everything, I've been thinking, I know him from somewhere.

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I know him from somewhere, but where do I know him? And I just couldn't place them until you told me last week. They were Carl from Shameless.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I never saw it. I saw something I recognized but I couldn't place it. I'm usually so good with this. Me too. I'm like this is IMDB.

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_07]: But this is, you know, Carl was a teenager. And I was a teenager when I watched this. I was early 20s but yeah, it was so long ago.

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And I could see now that I know, I'm like, oh my God, absolutely can't unsee it. But I can't believe it's taken me this long to realize who that who was and I didn't even by the way, kudos to the fact that I didn't even know that Carl was played by twins.

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I just thought it was one lad that played Carl. No idea. There was two of them. So fantastic they are. They shocked me on an old show and a new one.

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Go on boys.

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_07]: But they've done a fantastic job. The fight in, the stunt work, the choreography that they practiced for hours and days and weeks and months. Did I pick that up right from the VT that they had been practicing when they were at home and stuff as well?

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. Yeah. Right. I don't know if I just made that part up.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no I don't think you did because I took that from it also.

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_07]: When you know you're acting with your brother and that you've got all that downtime at home as well.

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_07]: They put so much work into it. Biggest roles of their careers and they've done a fantastic job. Sad to see them go. That was very sad how it ended. It was a very Shakespearean end wasn't it?

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_07]: So tragic. Why do you think he killed himself?

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_07]: To be with his brother.

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he couldn't live with the shame of being a kinslayer.

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_07]: All of the above maybe.

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was, well maybe not even so much just a kinslayer.

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_07]: A twinslayer.

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_07]: A twinslayer.

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_07]: That's worse isn't it?

[01:20:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah definitely. I think that was something he just couldn't live with. If I have to do this, this is the last thing I ever do.

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Sad.

[01:20:52] [SPEAKER_10]: So which one was he?

[01:20:54] [SPEAKER_07]: What? Which one?

[01:20:56] [SPEAKER_10]: That took his own life.

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_07]: It was Eric.

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_10]: I was testing.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_07]: It was Eric. Absolutely. Although there was a moment of ambiguity as he staggered towards Renita and Sir Lawrence like, I don't know what to do.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I love when Lauren says to Renita, which one's Eric? And she's like, I don't know.

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_09]: It's as good as my love. I'm getting out of here.

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I lost track five slices ago.

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh dear.

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_07]: It must have been so intense though.

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I saw a clip of Emma Darcy saying, I just had the best seats in the house. And I'm thinking it was this scene.

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_07]: What was the specific, it was out of context that I saw the clip.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think it must have been referring to this scene because she really did have the best seats for that fight.

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_10]: So whose turn is it?

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's yours.

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Cool. Well, the last thing I have is, well, I kind of have two things, but I think we could fit them together.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_10]: It's Otto and Alison's last conversation within this episode.

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. Yes, we mentioned earlier the part where she tries to confess.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_07]: She tries to confess a few times. She tries to confess to Helena as well.

[01:22:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And Helena was just like...

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_07]: She didn't even want to talk about it.

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_07]: She was like, here take this is for my boy.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And hands her the shroud.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I actually meant to bring that up during our section earlier when we were talking about guilt.

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Because that was the big thing with Alison.

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_07]: She was running around trying to confess and nobody would listen to her.

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_07]: They're just like, shut up. We've got made important things to talk about.

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_10]: This will cut off the, I've taken last thing.

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, her and Kristin managed to get someone to listen to each other.

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's them with their kind of last, the last scene of the guilt fuck.

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's like the total slappy.

[01:23:06] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, for God's sake, you're just a pair of dicks.

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_10]: I hate you guys.

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so fed up with their, their relationship.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Really? Because I feel like it's quite new. We're only two episodes in.

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I'm already bored.

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Right, okay.

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I suppose I am, like not really that interested in them as a couple.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_07]: It might be him that I'm quite fed up with.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm fed up with him by far. He is annoying the crap out of me.

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_07]: How long has it been since she dumped him and we're still getting this bitch queen crap?

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm just so sick of hearing his nonsense.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_07]: So anyway, as much as I'm just sick of Kristin, let's move back to Alison.

[01:23:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_07]: So yes, I clipped this scene. I thought it was quite interesting.

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Otto just seems so, so defeated.

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know what I mean? It sounds like he's aged 10 years.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_10]: I still think he has a plan though.

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_10]: He does?

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_10]: He always has a plan, doesn't he?

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, he talked about part of his plan. He still has influence in Old Town.

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_07]: He's going to go back, see Daron who maybe, you know, we may need him in the coming weeks.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I swear he said the coming weeks. I might be wrong about that.

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's find out in the clip.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_25]: He has.

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_25]: So true.

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, she's right. She's overlooking the daddy issues though.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah definitely.

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, his work here is done.

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, definitely.

[01:26:08] Uh.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_25]: Well, go on Plotto.

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_10]: He's just got to stick to whoever he can manipulate, isn't he?

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but I think in this instance it really is about peace.

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I have sent.

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, he doesn't have a fuck glove.

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_07]: No, he does not.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_10]: I do not wish to hear of it.

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean it doesn't fit into any of his devices.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_10]: No.

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_10]: It's irrelevant to him.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_10]: He can't use it.

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_07]: It's just not worth a thought.

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_07]: No.

[01:27:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Not even the thought that his daughter might just need to confide in him.

[01:27:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Zero fucks were given.

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_07]: No, this is the medieval times.

[01:27:25] [SPEAKER_07]: It's gaze upon the field of fucks and ye shall see that it is barren.

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_07]: But yes, that he's in a place now where he's just like there is fuck all I can do here.

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I need to move on to a place where I can be effective.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And I like that in that moment, his initial instinct to head back to Old Town and rally the high towers.

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But Alison goes, no, actually I have a better plan.

[01:28:01] [SPEAKER_07]: He actually just goes, okay then.

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_07]: There was no argument.

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_07]: There was no trying to out-think her or anything like that.

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_10]: No, because she is his last grip on King's Landing right now.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, definitely.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_10]: So he can't piss her off?

[01:28:18] [SPEAKER_07]: No, no.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_10]: He can piece a fire and say, oh no, yeah that's a good idea.

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll just go and do what I want anyway.

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, but he needs to keep her on side and he's a clever man.

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_07]: He knows that.

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_10]: So do you have anything else?

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Nothing really.

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's everything done but dragons.

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:28:41] [SPEAKER_10]: Shall we move on to our dragon section?

[01:28:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's do that.

[01:28:59] [SPEAKER_07]: So dragons this week.

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_07]: What do you want to talk about first?

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_10]: So I did think it was really cool when Daemon goes off on his strop on Caraxes and all dressed in armour and Caraxes is looking all fabulous.

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_07]: The music was intense and it was very...

[01:29:22] [SPEAKER_10]: The movements of Caraxes were, it was all very cool.

[01:29:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I love the way, I mean Caraxes movement was awesome but I also noticed the way Daemon moved in the saddle.

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh cool.

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_07]: It was really, really like when Caraxes lunges off the edge of the cliff and Daemon's body is kind of thrown backwards and then forwards with the force.

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And it just seemed really, really realistic.

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course we know he's not really on a dragon.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_10]: No, what is he on?

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[01:30:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Some, I don't know.

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_10]: Sitting on a saddle, on a box.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_07]: On a Bronco.

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_07]: One of those fucking Bronco machines you get in Western Mars.

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_07]: It could very well be, who knows.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_07]: But it is very cool.

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_07]: They've certainly, they really thought through every movement of both Daemon and the dragon.

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_07]: It was super badass.

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_07]: It was very, very clever.

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And Caraxes just awesome and imposing as usual.

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So cool, love that dragon.

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Looks very angry all the time don't you think?

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Caraxes just seems as angry as Daemon.

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, totally channeling him.

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Very much so.

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_07]: So are you done with Caraxes?

[01:30:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.

[01:30:45] [SPEAKER_07]: So my big takeaway from the dragon section was the sighting of, I think it was Sea Smoke.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_10]: I think so too because Sea Smoke's like a pale silver grey.

[01:30:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like they're just, you know.

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a tease isn't it?

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_07]: They're just laying out there with this Adam guy all episode.

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_07]: There's no room for a big reveal.

[01:31:09] [SPEAKER_07]: They're just dropping sledgehammers.

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And the second big sledgehammer I'm feeling is that he is destined to fly Sea Smoke.

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, because it's this Daemon, he's like, oh, there's a crab.

[01:31:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, look at the dragon.

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_10]: And there's no fear in him.

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_10]: No.

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_10]: Most people are like, ah, dragon!

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what they usually do, yeah.

[01:31:34] [SPEAKER_07]: But he's like, cool, dragon.

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's something there and I feel like the only reason for that scene is to foreshadow him flying Sea Smoke.

[01:31:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Which brings us to a plot hole.

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, how can Sea Smoke bond with another rider if Lenore is still alive?

[01:31:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.

[01:31:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm very interested in this because they've decided to go down the route that Lenore just took off to live a new life in the free cities.

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_07]: And like I say, it was never in the book, it's written that Lenore dies, right?

[01:32:16] [SPEAKER_07]: If George had meant it the way that they've done it in the show, that Lenore really did just run off in secret, fire and blood would still be the same.

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_07]: They would not change anything in fire and blood if that is what George wanted.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_07]: So let's just assume that this is what George wants.

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm very confused.

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't get it because I feel like this bond, this dragon bond is forever until death.

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_10]: And it seems to be quite a psychic thing.

[01:32:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:32:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Like they're so bonded.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_07]: You would think that if Lenore went away that Sea Smoke would follow.

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But Sea Smoke hasn't.

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Sea Smoke's been flying around and grumbling quite a lot.

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_07]: There's been a lot of noise.

[01:33:02] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think the shaved head was a fool Sea Smoke.

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_07]: No.

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I don't think Sea Smoke is going to fall for that.

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I liked it.

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But hey.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_07]: So I feel like there's a couple of ways they could play out.

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_07]: They can completely ignore this.

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Which I think is going to piss people off.

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Myself included.

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And you too.

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Or somehow the word could get to Ranira or Damon.

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Probably Ranira.

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_07]: There needs to be a raven, a scroll.

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Or Carl Corry showing up and saying...

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Carl Corry even an owl with a note would do.

[01:33:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, something we need to know for sure.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Because otherwise it's a plot hole.

[01:33:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't want to be a plot hole.

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't like those.

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Not such a big one.

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_07]: They made a massive choice when they decided to make Lenore live.

[01:34:11] [SPEAKER_10]: Everything else is so clever down to the last detail.

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_10]: So this feels kind of wrong.

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It does feel wrong.

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean people die and people never find out about it.

[01:34:24] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he did go off to seek battle.

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_10]: He did.

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_10]: But like we've said, surely Seasmoke would have followed him and then come back.

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's kind of weird.

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It is very weird.

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm still very...

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm intrigued to see how this plays out.

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean I don't think...

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_07]: What's his name?

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Adam is quite ready to jump on the back of Seasmoke yet.

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_07]: But there is definitely heavy foreshadowing of that and the fact that they are related to Corlys.

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_07]: And the Velaryons are married in...

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_07]: They're not dragon lords themselves, Velaryons.

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_07]: But they're married in so many generations to the Targaryens that there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to fly a dragon.

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean I don't know.

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe it could be Rhaenys was Targaryen.

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_10]: She was Laenor's mother.

[01:35:21] [SPEAKER_10]: The bond was with Laenor but Corlys was also his father.

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_10]: So maybe Seasmoke senses that bloodline in there.

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_10]: That's something that Seasmoke's drawn to.

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_07]: That hit with Laenor's brother.

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:35:33] [SPEAKER_07]: It could be that.

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_07]: It could absolutely be that.

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think just to...

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_07]: That would be really cool.

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that actually is really cool.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_07]: But even if they didn't make it that complicated just that the Velaryons are basically Targaryens anyway, would be explanation enough.

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But I like your idea.

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I do.

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Did we have any other notes on this?

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it was a very, very small dragon section this week.

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_10]: It is.

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_10]: We interrupt your personal headspace with this breaking news bulletin.

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_23]: Hi, this is Fiona the Whisperer broadcasting live via glass candle from Dragonstone.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_23]: Apologies for the psychic invasion.

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_23]: An ancient Targaryen text has been discovered inside the Red Keep when the new king recently moved into his father's waters, buried under stacks of books and scrolls on Valyrian history.

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_07]: The former king Viserys, first of his name, king of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, lord of the Seven Kingdoms and protector of the realm, was somewhat of an amateur historian and spent most of his life studying the histories of Old Valyria.

[01:36:51] [SPEAKER_23]: Our Whisperer on the ground, Intrepidema, has the details.

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_22]: Hi Dragonstone, I'm live in King's Landing and Nanna Vhagar has just flown overhead and let me tell you, no one can describe to you how big this dragon is.

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_22]: You just have to see it for yourself.

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_23]: Wow, that's terrifying.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_22]: It's a terrible day in King's Landing. The streets are lined with corpses of dead rat catchers. People are wailing in the streets and the smell is unbearable.

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_22]: Crowds are starting to gather, demanding answers.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_22]: Oh, there's a wee dog here. He looks starving.

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Come on, pal, come on.

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, oh, okay, not my dog.

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_10]: So tell us about the book Emma.

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Sources say the text was almost lost forever when the young king told the Red Keep servants to quote unquote clear out his dad's old junk.

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_10]: And when asked what he wanted done with it, the king has rumoured to have replied, burn it for all I care.

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Although this is unsubstantiated, the dowager queen, Alison Hightower, spoke out against her son's rash decisions to flippantly discard her late husband's life's work.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_16]: Gone are all the histories and books. If his eggon thinks he doesn't need that, him wearing the crown is enough for him to rule.

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Spokesman for the king, Ryan Condal, defended the young king's actions.

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a new sheriff in town and Eggon's reign as king is very different than Viserys and the way that Viserys obsessed about history and legacy is not something that is on Eggon's mind.

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_23]: The book has yet to be authenticated, but a small excerpt has been leaked to the public by an unnamed source.

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_23]: It reads as follows.

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_23]: Lord Aenor's maiden daughter Daenys, known forever after as Daenys the Dreamer, had foreseen the destruction of Valerion by fire.

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_23]: What isn't widely known however is that Daenys had claimed Valerion, at the time no bigger than a horse, the night before her fateful dream.

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_23]: When the Doom came twelve years later, the Targaryens were the only survivors.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_23]: Elina tossed coins to merchants and seamstresses as if they were plentiful.

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_23]: Fixated on perception, she blamed her troubles on her husband.

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_23]: If she wanted something, be it a new dress, a jade tiara or an emerald ring, she would have it.

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Let us go back and return to that fateful day when Daenys awoke in her gilded bedchamber shaking.

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Running swiftly to her mother Elina, she spoke of what she had seen.

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_07]: You heard it here first folks.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So what do the maesters say Emma?

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_10]: Maesters all over Westeros have stated the text completely changes our understanding of the Dragonbond

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_10]: and may give us more insight into the Targaryens in the time of Old Valeria.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_10]: Possibly even information they don't want us to know.

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_10]: The Citadel has raised a petition already signed with over 1,000 names calling for copies to be released to the general public before some feckless idiot destroys the knowledge forever.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_23]: We will be back with further updates as the story progresses.

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_23]: Right, tell him Vynira is done.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_23]: If the Hand wants a propaganda war, he's got one. Never let a tragedy go to waste eh?

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_23]: Didn't you hear?

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_10]: Hear what?

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_10]: Fired again. Cole is Hand now.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_21]: Cole?

[01:40:21] [SPEAKER_18]: Oh shit this candle's still lit!

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_10]: That moves us on to our RIP section.

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_07]: It does. First of all we said goodbye to blood.

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes we did.

[01:40:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Who spelled all over the floor.

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_10]: Can I say that?

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_10]: Dad jokes in the RIP, that's a fine line.

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh well, here we are.

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_10]: Here we are, it's out there.

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Goodbye to blood.

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_07]: No, you know saying goodbye to blood.

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Goodbye blood.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_10]: He was a bad guy.

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_10]: Aye.

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_10]: He kicked the dog.

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Sorry it took me a while but you know.

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh dear.

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Have I lately sleeveed this whole?

[01:41:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And then we said goodbye to the rat catchers.

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_10]: We did, the 100.

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it's so tragic.

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_07]: 99 people, 99 innocent people just brutally murdered.

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Because that's what it is.

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It's murder, you can call it justice if you want, A-gon.

[01:41:52] [SPEAKER_07]: It's murder.

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_07]: But one guilty man at least saw his end.

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Felt right sorry for his dog though.

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_07]: So goodbye to the rat catchers.

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_17]: Goodbye.

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And finally we said goodbye to the Cargill twins.

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for your service.

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Very much so.

[01:42:19] [SPEAKER_07]: They were both loyal to the end.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a very, very tragic, tragic, tragic end for twins.

[01:42:29] [SPEAKER_07]: For brothers anyway but more so for twins.

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It's, it was a very, very sad end but.

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what else to say Emma help me out here.

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Rest in peace Eric and Arik.

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:42:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And that brings us to the end of our IP.

[01:42:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Time for a few fun facts.

[01:42:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Yay.

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_07]: What have we got?

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_07]: So.

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: The dual of the Cargill twins differs from the books in a couple of aspects.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_07]: His true intentions were never fully known and had conflicting reports, whether his target was Runira or one of her sons.

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_07]: It was not known as it didn't happen in front of Runira.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_07]: In the books the Cargill twins had ran into each other by chance in the hall and they fought to the death.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_07]: It was never mentioned that Eric fell on his own sword and took his own life since no one saw the entire fight.

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_07]: The only thing known was the brothers had delivered mortal wounds on each other and both died from it.

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_07]: That's sad.

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_06]: That is sad.

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_07]: The next one is the first mention of Alison's third son with Viserys, Deron.

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Similar to the books he is fostered in Old Town at the seat of House Hightower.

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_07]: In the books Deron is the most loved of the Queen's sons and is a very important figure in the war.

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_07]: He has yet to appear on the show.

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Looking forward to that.

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And our next one is the legendary fight between the Cargill twins that happened during this episode was immortalized through song.

[01:44:17] [SPEAKER_22]: Oh really?

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Farewell, my brother by Lucian of Tarth is a popular song that is still being played in Westeros during the reign of Robert and his successors.

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh cool.

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Well Lena has guards named after the legendary twins Eric and Eric also mocked as left and right.

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Awesome.

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And finally Aegon exclaims I am the king twice after destroying his father's model of old Valyria.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_07]: This could be a reference to Tywin's words, any man who must say I am the king is no true king.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh I like that.

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_07]: It's very true.

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And that is the end of fun facts because we dropped all the other ones in during the scene they were relevant.

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_10]: And that brings us to the end of our show.

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_07]: It certainly does.

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_07]: So next episode is yet to be named.

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_07]: So we will find out basically hours before it's released what its name is but I am looking forward to it.

[01:45:29] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah me too. It's going to be great to see how the story progresses.

[01:45:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely, any predictions for the next episode? What do you think?

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh I'm not sure how it's going to go.

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I know I'm expecting some movement in the war but we shall see.

[01:45:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Right now it's a lot of back stabby stabby.

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes I'm not sure how quickly it's going to progress through the story so it's difficult to predict how the next episode will go.

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Will we see more dragons?

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_10]: I bloody hope so.

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Right so in the meantime here's how you can contact us.

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_10]: If you want to contact us you can head over to our website the unrealhour.com where you can find links to our social media and Patreon to review, like, follow and subscribe.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_10]: You can also leave us a voice message that we may use on the show.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_10]: Finally you can email us at talk at the unrealhour.com

[01:46:31] [SPEAKER_07]: If you like what we're doing here and you want to support the show then you can visit patreon.com slash the unrealhour where you can subscribe for ad free listening, early access episodes and exclusive content.

[01:46:43] [SPEAKER_07]: If you don't want to commit to a monthly subscription then you can buy us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash the unrealhour.

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_07]: All your donations will go back into the show to cover costs and keep the lights on.

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Once again thanks for listening until next time keep it unreal.