"The Treasons At Tumbleton" HOTD S3E8 (ACOIAF #34)

The gods summoned my ancestor, Egon the Conqueror, to the Seven kingdoms to unite a fractured realm beneath one banner of black and red. They named him Protector of the world of men, his duty to shield it from an ancient and sinister darkness that looms in the far north, beyond the Wall, beyond the lands of winter, and only the might of dragons can stand against it. The Conqueror passed this sacred charge to his chosen descendants, to the old King, to Harris, then to my father, then to me. Hi, tell a line cannot fulfill this prophecy. If your will this is a. Live I must like the way Hi. And the shield of the people I and Rmira got chosen. Mayda give me a. Lara's nigg son. Oh wow, nobody understood a word she said there at the end. They must all think she's crazy. None of it must have made any sense to those people. None of it, None of it on earth. Has the wall got to do with what's going on? With their food source and the fighting all. They hear about right now, Just give me the food. We thought you were making some announcement, and I think you're coming to like for another food bank or something. You come out with this crazy gibber jab. But she's not wrong, but she sounds batshit. Yeah, there's a flaw on her plan though. Yes, many like, okay, fine, if you want to keep the line pure, we get it. You and demon are not. There's no high tower influencing there. But you're naming Joe as your heir. That's not a pure line and she knows that. No, So yes, she spilled crazy on her dress. She spilled a lot of crazy on her, on her. Armor, on her evil queen. Look, Oh it was badass. It was so snow white evil Queen. It really was. It really was, and not that once upon a time evil queen because she was just amazing. No like Disney from being a little girl scared of her. Not when she's the old peddler woman, but when she's really mean. Yes, yes, definitely get she is, like she's embodying the look, the attitude. Finally we have books Runia. Yeah, that is it. And yet I also felt like, if you look at the season as an arc overall, I'm thinking that there was a point where it was like, where's book Renina, Where's book Renina. But at the same time, at the beginning, from when she first took the throne, we were like, oh no, this is rushed, her messing it up. But it didn't feel right. It felt like this whole indecision silliness place didn't make sense. It happened too quickly. But when I now look at the whole series as an arc, you see that the fact is the reason she's in this place is because she didn't make those hard decisions at the beginning. Yeah, she didn't listen to Damon and oh yeah, the face was right now the idea of listening to Damon, but he is right. In war, you need to strike first. Let's go Cobra Kuai. When you strike first, strike hard, no mercy. That is exactly the attitude that is needed. We're in some Cobra guy there. And Damon has been urging her to do this all season long, and she has fought against it. And that is the reason she is where she is right now, because she didn't make those hard choices early on when she should have. She did when she first walked down the door of the Red Cape, executing all all Jasper wild Boom done far too soft with Alison not decisive enough about just getting there and just get these high towers out. I understand because the people of Tumbleton were being held hostage, but her wedd didn't really pan out for them either, did it. Well? No, I felt like this episode, her kickup the arse seemed to come from finding out the egg On was alive. Oh, definitely, so that she's been motivated by her revenge. Yes, hi guys, I'm Fiona and I'm Emma, and. We are covering the final episode of this season, The House of the Dragon, which was directed by Andre Perek and written by T. Michel and Ryan Condall. How T Michael is George's person, George's person that was put into the House of the Dragon team who's supposed to be their consult or, started out as their consult on all things lore, and I felt like this episode was really back on track. Yeah. As I put it to Sara the other day on the phone, this dragon was way of course and somehow they managed to land it in the right place. Lovely. I don't know how they felt, but they did it. They did. I feel like all my complaints of the season or I don't like this plot line, I don't like that plot line and this is week and this isn't working, and all of those things no longer matter. At the end of this episode, the majority of those plots have concluded and they have a clean slate to go forward and do a solid season four. Yeah, please please, we won't. We really want that. All this silly stuff's wrapped up and everything is where it's supposed to be. Raniera is Raniera from the books Tumbleton. Nobody won, Nobody won. I mean, there's a few we variations, like egg On, for example, is somewhere where didn't expect them to be. But I'm happy to see what they bring because what everything they've done with egg On this season has been one of the more solid parts of the season. It's been hilarious. It's been very, very good. But we'll get to that later. We have got a lot what's more to say about Rinina coming up lane in the episode, we'll be discussing the tragic fate of Helena Targarian, the Alice Rivers reveal, and of course the treason's at Tumbleton. Let's get into it. Welcome to the Unreal Hour. Do you want to hear that clip actually of her panic attack. Yeah, it's risen, I go on, sunfight is alive. You cannot see the queen meltdown. Sun is dead, rotting in a wise man sit down. I got burned the mouton host at Rook's rest. And then they flew. I don't know where. Support has already sent ravens throughout the. Realm announcing the king's return. A small folk named it a sound from the gods, and egg and wanting to roll here and his dragon have been resurrected to reclame the throne. At this moment, my known subjects gathered outside the grand set beceeding the gods to say who was meant to rule them? For which I have thought I'm suffoled. Oh dear, Yeah, she is losing it hyperventively and you can you can hear it again, Emma Darcy knocking that pan out of the park and nailed another one checked off my list. I can do a back. But yeah. Then she goes on as like fucking visis he put me here? And she is so right, she absolutely is his indecision and then refusing a like what's the word I'm looking for, refusing to like jump in either way. It's like he never really supported her. He never He absolutely never backed down from the fact that she should be his heir. Yeah, but he did not set her up for the rule. He ignored all the problems that were going on. He allowed all this to fester, this resentment that he let the high towers take power. He just let all of this happen around him. He didn't do anything per se at Viseriti's biggest crime is doing nothing. Yeah, I love the high Valarian from this scene though. This is your test now, the moment you rise, the only quality of the realm understands his strength and you have always known this. And then of course she's like, the realm is watching, don't make a monster of me. Once Ormond and Darren are dead, I will sniff out Eagan's false hurt and kill him myself. This is the moment, Yeah, this is where she changes, right in this moment, and she's saying this. In her I can take revenge era. Yeah for sure. So the second she walks out of that situation with Damon, the next thing we see with Rania is with Bela, and there's an immediate transformation in her already. M at that point, what did you think of this scene? What do you think how Bayla was with her? I thought Bella was very brave, so braver Bella that we've seen with Rania, she seems to have been quite meek and feeling responsible, partly for Jesse Dyan not being there for them and encouraging him to go or supporting them going. Yeah, but yeah, this is very different. She's standing up for. Herself and her grandfather. Yeah, she's standing up for her side of the family. Yes, the Valarians. Yeah, yeah, she really was. And it was good to say. She maybe overstepped once or twice. Not so much that I think what she said was wrong, but she just overstepped for the mood Rnera was in. Yeah. I think it's interesting that Ranera has been previously, may have been not receptive to that, but in a weaker state. Yeah, so Bela's maybe felt I'm just going to say it like it is. Yeah, and oh dear yesterday, she might have got away with it. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Baila says, oh sor Ranina says to Bela, I could have abandoned you after the gullet, and Bella is like, but you need my dragon, brave girl, Yeah, not wrong, insolent child, insolence runs in your blood. Oh dear, that's your blood too, darling. Yeah, I was thinking you must be talking about your husband there. Well, she's definitely talking about her husband there, right, but her husband's or uncle that's her blood too. Yeah, I wasn't sure if she was talking about her Valarium blood. No, I think she meant man, but that would make more sense, you know. But I don't think Rinina's leading with logic right now, So I think she did mean Damon, but that you know, forgetting this is her blood too. But no, because I can't really think how that the Valerians have been insolent to her, except. Carlos hasn't told her what she wants to hear. No, because that's where my train of thought had gone with that. That's or Rinda hasn't told Carlos what he wants to hear. In Rinda's mind, though she hasn't felt. Supported no, no, And in a way, Rinder's right. Carlos is being a petulant little brat. And Alan even told him that. He's like, she wouldn't legitimize, like you wouldn't acknowledge your legitimacy, and he's like, well, neither did you, hm, fact, for like five minutes, it's only the whole world's a dick. It doesn't. It's Yeah, so Carlos, like Carlos has been petulant and petty and huffing and puffing and he's not exactly in the right, but neither is she. No, I mean maybe she was talking about Raina. Yes, well, well she did say after she said instulce runs on your brother, as your sister has recently reminded us. Yeah, so there was that too, But that was reminded us as in the first example of that is your father. It's got to be she means damon. I believe she means damon. Yeah. Then of course she goes to the sept and she's like, you need to annoyt me, and that septing is like no, no, no, no no, this eggon rising for the ashes. The gods have chosen. This scene was This scene was all kinds of oh no for me. I just thought, oh no, no, don't ask Alan. She didn't exactly She said who will step up to this? And Alan's like, oh, I don't know, I don't know, and she says, you are the blood of old Valeria. You answer to higher gods than his to them, she says to the sceptin, this house is an empty work of brick and stone. Well, yeah, she's really invoking this old Valeria higher power thing. She's yeah, yeah, not cool, Renina. I think she maybe should have channeled a bit more of Jeharris and accepting the faith and how important they are for the community. Even Egone knew how important the faith were. Yeah, and Jeheris was the one that sorted out the mess that meg Or made, Yeah, with the faith, because he knew how important the faith were. Again, it's it's right that Visis didn't set her up properly. He didn't sit her down and say these are the things that matter, this is how how it was done in the past, and he was so studious. Why did he not do that? Yeah? Again, but I whatever advice for Serius had to give, even if he had given it, I don't think it would have served her in this situation because. Because she's a whack job at this point. Yeah, because it's all fucked it is and it's like this this horse is bullied, it's out of the barn, and there is nothing anybody can do to reel this back in. The only way you can navigate your way out of this is being strong and decisive, and. Yeah, yeah it does make me still go back to Jaheris though, and he was only a little boy and everything was fucked and he still had the presence of mind to put things right, slowly, put the building blocks in place, be strong, but also be inclusive. Yeah. So he went against the faith by Mary and Alisan, he did, but they did they not wait two years to consummate. Yep. Yeah, so there was a lot of that. He solidified his rule before. Yeah, he took you anything to the next level. Slow and steady wins the rest Roanira, Yes it does. Losing your temper with new eye makeup isn't going to win it. The high makeup, I almost forgot to talk about the Ie makeup not striking enough. I think I think if they were going to do Ie makeup, it should have been more. But I thought my first watch, I thought, oh, I don't know what I think of that. It's a bit. And then when I watched the behind the scenes I really liked. I'm not sure which behind the scenes it was, but Emma Darcy had sat with the makeup arts and she had to go they had to go that, No, that's not right, that's not right, and then finally decided on that one, and then I think that's nice. Yeah, and the thought that went into it, and I did see that, and yeah, I did appreciate that. I would have just went for I liked the style. Maybe just a little bit more of it, just a little bit more should. Have just gone fill guyliner. I think that would have been It's have gone Jack Sparrow. That would have been cool painted on open eyes on her eyelids. So she's constantly watching I don't know, like dragon eyes. Okay, I'm taking this too far. I loved it when the well, I didn't love it. But the moment when the septing called her princess. That was a micro drop, wasn't it. I am queen. No one calls me princess darling. So yes, leading into Alan. Then Alan's definitely been drinking that kool aid. And it was before this scene. We saw this earlier scene with him with the Valarian men and who are you his eldest living son and named successor, you're once in future Lord of the Tides. Now this whole sentence just brought me right out of it. I think though maybe if Vanera had channeled more of that. It's like we were saying, he's been given this piece of information and he's just running with it in the moment. So they don't seem to question him. No, they don't at this point. They seem to take his They. Took it face value, didn't they. I found that quite bizarre, if I'm honest, that there was no question. And then I thought, well, it's setting sort of medieval times. He's a man. It's quite sad that he asserts that in a few lines and they accept it. But for Rania as a woman with an actual crown on her head and a dragon. Ah see, there you go. You had to think about the time to think about it from a narrative perspective, rawn out of the whole thing by the line the once in future Lord of the Tides, very King Arthur, the once in future king. But think about those words, the once and future. The reason that line is tied to King Arthur is because he was a king of the past. That is prophesies to rise again. You've lost me, Yeah, you've lost me. He lost me at the time. Yeah, exactly, once in future. That's the point it's saying that he was in the past and he will be in the future. So the line doesn't make sense. It's it's a write and blunder and it pulled me right out of the scene and it kind of annoyed me. But I'm loving the vibe. I was loving the vibe for al and just that one bit of dialogue he said, if you just said your future Lord of the Tides, I would have been cool with that, But that was ripped right from King Arthur and it doesn't make sense, no. Is. And so there was that, But then there was this other scene with him and Adam and let's just hear the scene. Let's just let's have a be listening to that. Will you? Martin Tumblton as well. No, today we got the Queen in her purpose? Where did you go? News of Eggon's return has set the Queen on the dark path. She has grounded Baylor and confined her to the key. Did you know this? He's a dangerous days and it's just not mine to question a grace? Why would you? While our father awaits the high Tower gallows Ranierva raises you up in his place. Laurie is a sent for a bastard. I have no ambition but to discharge my duty. Always he's passed off, isn't He's like, you've got my girl and our dad has given you high tide. Yeah. Do you think that Adam's right in that that Alan's just following the power that he's been given and riding. That wave or it does appear that way. It definitely does. He's definitely been drinking that kool aid. Yeah. The scene in the set that follows obviously highlights that it's not the way I perceived Alan from the books. No, but it kind of makes sense for his character, the one we've been presented in the show, and we're not given enough of his personality in the book to say that what he's really like either way, But for what we've been presented in the show, it kind of makes sense. He's his soldier, he's loyal, he does what he's told, and that's what's happening here. But there's definitely a distance between him and his brother at this point. It's sad. Yeah, I hope that's not just a moment and it's not something that's going to carry forward because I don't really I don't want to see friction between these brothers. Yeah, we like their nice relationship. Yeah, definitely, so I get a wholesome guy. Let's keep it good. But still great scenes, great scenes. So I don't know if you've got any other thoughts or notes on the Valarium brothers. No, okay, So the next thing in my notes was Darn's nighting Oh okay. So the beginning of this scene, Ormond's still in a very smug place. My notes say. After I say Ormond is still smug, my notes say, insert unearned moniker and nighting rant here. Who comes, Guys, you've been warned? What? Why? Why has this happened? Like it was a good scene, but at the same time, it's just so unearned. Because they cut the Honeywine, because they cut Bitterbridge. Darron has not done the things that earned him the moniker dare On the Daring to become a knight. At this point with that moniker with that title dare On the Daring is completely unearned and it annoys me. And I'm not saying the boy doesn't deserve it. He does, right, It doesn't make it even if you've not read the books, it doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't. Tonight, this kid. I'm trying to think of it from that perspective, having not read the books. What has he done? Why is he there on the day. It doesn't make any sense in any way, shape or form, because he's already been set up as the king. Yeah, so why would you unite him? What's the point is? It's just kind of pointless and weird. And also Ormond's character is supposed to be someone that's super intelligent, does things in a calculated way. This doesn't make any sense exactly. Now. I had this rant when I was taking my notes. Now, it wasn't until I was collecting clips earlier before you came round that I heard it again from a different perspective. So I'm going to play the clip. We're going to hear this nighting and you're actually listen to what it is that the vows that Ormond is asking him to make, they are not the vows that you would be asking of a king. They're the vows that you'd be asking of someone who's subservent to you. Let's hear it. Well, that tracks it. Does, Darren Tuggerian, Do you swear before the eyes of gods and men to defend those who cannot defend themselves, all women and children, to obey your captains, your llege lord, to fight bravely whenever needed, and to do such other tasks as I laid upon you, however hard or humble or dangerous. It maybe. You're great. Yeah, I swear makes no sense. He's had coins made. Of him, said, do you swear to me? Yeah? Yeah, it's your liege lord. You're crowding and king. How are you his liege lord? And that is just narratively the problems I have with this nighting. Let's get into what else was wrong with the nighting. In the name of the Father, I charge you to be just Yes, this is it. This is what I wanted to hear in a night thing, if it was going to happen. These are the words I wanted to hear. Now. I understand that the latter parts of what Ormond were saying were tweaked for his own interest, and that it could have been cool with as well. But if they just started with those correct lines, we've had it. We had it in a Night of the Seven Kingdoms. We did, and it was so good, and it was so moving and so powerful. And if they had went with the same thing. It would have given us that then if he'd added this Ormond twist, you will be subservient to me parts on the end of it, to do dangerous things when I may call on you, or something along those lines. It pissed me off. It pissed me off. Is that, No, I don't want those lights. I want to hear in the name of the Father, our chargy to be just in the name of the mother, our chargy will protect the weekend, the innocent. Those are the night's vows that I've come to expect, and I was disappointed we didn't get them. But then when you get onto this story level, it's so manipulative. Yeah, the things he's. Said, and that in that sense it may have been. Deliberate maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, it might have. When I had the first ran in my head about them not using the ones that I know, I wasn't thinking about the other thing, always thinking about the other thing later. So yeah, on a manipulative level, Yeah, I get that what Ormond was doing there. Yeah, theren Oh, and he's just like I swear it. I'm going to go with this was intentional because of the level of detail that they have on the set and in general, I would I'd like to believe that that was deliberate, yeah, in the narrative to just keep Ormond being the manipulative oursehole that he is in this episode, because there's been so much attention to detail when it comes to this it. Yeah, so yeah, I'm going to go with that. Yeah, I think so. I think where some of the plot points of this season have failed, the effort that they've put into fleshing out Ormond's character has been absolutely brilliant. Is the attention to detail that every line is giving you another clue to who this guy is and how deep his twisted machinations how you say that word, how how deep they run? So, yes, Ormond is brilliant and has been written brilliantly. And I believe that, yeah, that. He's deliberately altered the vows to suit his own narrative. And Darn's. Sure yeah, and Darren what. Sorry, Darn doesn't question it. He's just yep, yep, yeah, even his face doesn't question it. He's so innocent, isn't he. I think he's just so abused. Yes, great face acting, not just from the actor but from the character. Yeah, for sure, surely. Dreon has thought this is odd. You would think in the moment, this is odd. GWayne did. Yeah, GWayne definitely did. GWayne thought this was very strange and he's for fox sake. But there was a wee nod from Gwayenne as well, like he was proud. There was a moment of pride, but there was also a moment of oh, for fuck's sake, you've just swore your life away this cunt. But on a lighter or note before we maybe next Darren will have some blonde roots coming through. Now the Ormond's dead. Yeah, oh my god, the hairdresser of Western US. Let's hope. Yeah, let's hope we'll finally because this has not been We're at the end of the season. This hair, hair color issue has not been addressed. So does he favor his mother? Is that what this version of Darn favors his mother? Is that? What's going on here? Well? I have to waitnes say, I want to see blonde roots. I want to see blonde roots next year. I'm telling you, blonde roots or egg do. Or there will be an uproar. We have not forgotten Ryan Condall address the hair issue. Do you have any other thoughts on Gwyn Daron Ormond up to the start of the battle. No, okay, anything that you want to interject at this point? Yes, yes, I do. Please can we talk about Eggon? Oh? Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that is fantastic. It's my favorite, definitely mine too. He was so so good. Tom glen Carney has stole the show this season. He is absolutely on point, brilliant every single time. Every single part of his plot this season has been off page and yeah, I've loved every second of it, much like the Ormond stuff. And there has been other stuff that I'm like, what are you doing here? Why are we wasting time on this? This is not one of them. This is brilliant, this character arc that he has had, and he's like, we thought he was growing when actually. I'm alive, died. Would hear that? That's so good? Can't be you are dead? I'm alive in Brazil? Really sorry streaming again? Ye forgiveness. I should split you in half. Mm hmm. I should have sun fire burn you alive. Mm hmm, but slowly m hm so I can see your skin peel and blister you kinslayer. Gas back too, sir. You can't. Oh yeah. Alice has walked in the room way with her tiny dagg out at this point. No, no, no, no, no no no. I was supposed to enjoy this. What's wrong with you? Why are you broking? I coveted what you had judged you want suited for the crown. If your sunfire is like, oh shut up, I'll. Kill you to take your place, he'd be right to sentence me to die. Uh huh mm. Hmmm, I might just do that. Fuck you get up? Oh it's so good. Well, wasn't that just the best scene of the whole episode? It really was, and yet like the most off book and yet the best. It was so great. We see egg ons hudd an arc, Amon's hudd an arc. I don't know what the fuck's going on with Alice. I love this. I told who the fuck is Alice? Moment? Oh, I was kicking myself last week when I'd done the edit and I finished it all, and then I was like, oh, I should have called that section who the fuck is Alice? Brain was too slow. I'm afraid. Thanks for getting in there now though, But yeah, there was another who is this? Yeah? Just just great around thoughts, carry on, I'm getting carried away. The subservience of Emmond is just too much for Eckon, Like, this is not how it was supposed to be. He's delivered his great line like I'm alive and he's expecting a big fight, and Emmond's just like, I tried to kill you. I'm so sorry. Ah, He's like, this is shipkicked. Up, so funny, just the comedy that I love. Yes, Yes, delivered so well great. I think I'm going to call it right now that Tom might be my MVP this season. It was so good in every step of the way, and this was just the icing on the cake. It was. I love that that him and Sufire have the same half burned face and the same limp, just in tandem. It's nice. Yeah, I'd like to see just how much mobility some Fire has going forward, because in the books take a shot, Sunfire has like one wing that's just not really working and it's kind of lopsided flapping going on. And it was hard to tell in this scene if that was the case, because they kind of just dropped into the hall. It wasn't like a fly in it was more like a And I think that's the way some fires described in the books as been able to like hop from one hill to another. Oh bless so, yeah, it'll be good to see next season. Just what the extent of that damage. But Agon's got plans, man. Yes he has. What are they? What are the plans? Let's hear them. We're near it declared dead and after you disappeared, that little twat Darren decided he should be king. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to find Vega, fly to Tumbleton and put Daryn and that shit heel Ormond in line, and then we're all going to march on kingslanding under my banner. And maybe when we're near his head is on a spike and I'm back on the iron throwne. Maybe then I'll forgive you for trying to fucking kill me. And we thought we weren't going to hear another shooh in hat and hole. I know, yeah, that was a very good shush from egg On there. Don't you butt in here now? And I love he's still I have a plan. Although I did want to kick your ass first. I don't know how we thought that was going to play out for him, that he was going to kick Aimond's ass in his current condition, but I love his optimism. Yes, definitely. I mean Amon's not exactly on top form right now either, but no, no, he did not know that even on his worst day, I still think Aiman could kick his ass. Yeah, well one arm, he could still kick his ass. Definitely the better fighter. So yes, I don't know how we thought that I was. Going to play ambition. He didn't have that. Man, he's manifested. Dragons come back to life and stook my dreams. Yeah so good. Yeah, definitely my favorite MVP this season. Onto another Alice. I mean, like, what do you think she's thinking here at this point? You know, no, damn it, I just got my claws in man. Yeah yeah she did. Not another in law. Oh god, I've just got rid of your mother. Now your brother shows up. Damn blast. You Targanians are all the same. It's like getting whackable for Alice at this point. It really is Alison in Sunfire have turned up. Oh yeah, I'm interested to see how they're going to remove out of the situation because it is off book, as we discussed, but and get back to two important plot points that we know are coming that don't involve those two two be being together. I think Alice maybe the catalyst for that. I think you could be right, definitely. But since we're on the subject of Alice, unless you have any other. Thoughts, well I'm happy. Okay, So let's talk about Haroen's bright Oh yeah, shall we hear her her little speech? Let's do that. When Dragon Valerian burned, this place goes to end Lord Haron's line, But his line was not so easily ended. A child boy lived on, burned terribly but alive. His mother would have given anything to save him. She summoned master's from across the seven kingdoms, but to noveil. So she turned to older cures. She uncovered incantations more ancient than the land. She treated with things that lived in the forest, the children, but none of it could unmake what Dragon Fire made. When the boy was gone, she tried to go with them. The acted youth phenomenal. Figail was so good, I felt every bit of it. And that is when she learned the cost she just covered. Then she was cursed to live on, to remain within the boun so the river kings of old cursed for sharing and hands. Iris stripped of her name, her title, her castle, and the sentence to serve every hapney Lord who came here to rule it. That was one hundred years pause. It's a long time to be alone. So did you think when you first heard this? I just thought, Okay, this is where we're going. I'm down for that. Fine. We don't actually have any confirmation of any of Haron's wives, AsSalt wives, rock wives, none of that exactly. So had at least four sons. That's all the yeah books say. I am on like, it's not. It's not something I ever considered when I thought about who Alice Rivers might be. No, but I just had a thing. There's nothing in the Lord that contradicts this. No, But in a narrative of the show, I've just had a thought that if she's gone through that with her son and he was horribly burned, and she tried her best to to have him healed, and then Eggon comes on the scene and he's horribly burned, I wonder if that's something that they'll touch on in season four, and maybe that's the reason why maybe she supports supports Eggon in some way and also keep a name and with her I don't know, maybe maybe I don't know what she might that might play out some way for her. I'd like to see that. I'd like to see them run with that. Yeah, definitely, for sure. I think it's a It's a really interesting turn to take to explain Alice, who she is, where she's from. It would be a good way for characters to bond. If that's definitely what they're going to do there, I'd like to see that. I'd definitely like to see that. Guys, a girl and a burned dragon rather than a pizza place. For sure, that's so cool. But yeah, I mean from a lower perspective, I'm like, this fits or it doesn't not fit. Yeah, that's more because it's not like the signs are there. The signs are not there, but they're not not there. Yeah, at the end of the day, we have this castle, we have the history and the lower surrounding her in the Black Agon coming in burning that place down, and then we have this character Alice, who George has also set up to be way older than she seems. She also wouldn't fit in with the curse because she's not of the bloodline. No, no, she's not. She's and if she's treated with the children of the forest, Yeah, then that's. The one thing about this that she has track as much, I suppose as was the idea of her being Harn's wife. It completely fits. She's older that she is. The thing is, is this this curse that she said that she used to remain within the bounds of the River Kings and never die and all? There's no precedent in the world for this kind of curse. That's the only question I have around it. It's not that it's not possible at the end of the day, but we've seen this trope play out in other situations, in other fantasy worlds, et cetera. But it's not something George has ever dabbled in. No. And yeah, now I'm wondering, when we get into the time of Game of Thrones, how is she not still floating around? Well, exactly has she come to Has our curse come to an end at some point? Possibly? Oh, maybe she'll pop up at a Night the Seven Kingdoms. Maybe there's there's a space for gel there. Oh, there's a I think there's a theory out there that she might be mad Danelle lost in from what I'd like. To see Gael in a Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Oh, I would like that definitely. But we also have this this fog of history around the decades and a half, maybe two decades after the Fire and Blood ends, where we know Alice Rivers is still at Harron Hall, and yet later in the histories is never mentioned. So something has to happen in this fifteen twenty year window that wraps this story line up, and hopefully we will we will get to know what that is. That would be cool, That would be very cool. Not to put any pressure on George to finish writing anything that he is currently working on, be that Blood and Fire, be that the Winds and Winter. I think it's time for George appreciation moment because the post that George put out last week was heart wrenching. To be honest with you, it was so sad to hear that George is suffering with depression and writer's block or these things that he's feeling the way. It wasn't too in depth the post, but the emotion was felt. I'm not surprised me neither, I think anybody that is surprised. As maybe a contributing factor. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, definitely. Without pissing off our fans. I'm not gonna lie. I like if you're one of these people that's like, just write the books, George. This is maybe no your podcast. I fully appreciate that this has been a hard journey for George, and nobody owes anyone art. No, And if to pick on an elderly man, yeah, it's quite shameful, It is shameful. The most important thing is at the end of the day, George, there's a tone there that you know, he's approaching seniority years of his life and he's got this immense pressure on them that's bringing them down. And he has had an amazing life, and he should be in his later years. He should be happy and contented. He should be able to. Be in his twilight years and just chill and enjoy any kind of creativity that he wants to get out there. Yeah, and I don't know. If George was my granddad, I would say just write it, Just write how you feel right, and then put something in your will that it can be released after you're gone. And if that's in twenty years time, let them wait. Let them wait. The most important thing is that. However, though if I was in my seventies, I would be saying hurry it up, because I might not get to see that. That's my only clause there. Yeah, and that's great, and it's understandable. As fans, we want, we want the end, and we want all the rest of it. But only write it, George, if you want to write it, if you feel like this is something you need to do for you to finish this story, to close that chapter in your life and for you, then then write it. Don't write it for all these screaming arseholes that think that you owe them something because you started. Robert Jordan didn't finish The Wheel of Time on his own, No he didn't. And Tolkien didn't finish his works on his own. No he didn't. So exactly, Yeah, you do you, you do you, George. Whatever makes you happy, you have absolutely our support. I think that it's great that other creators out there are spreading the love, spreading the light, because we love this world and we love this work. But it should never ever make anybody feel that bad and feel that isolated and alone. So we love you, George, You do you so. Other than the battle, the only thing really left to discuss is Helena. Oh Helena. I knew it was coming, I really did, and I thought last week is they're they're either completely changing Helena's ark and she's going to be in the dragon pit, or she's going to die next week. That was my thoughts, was camp. I'm honest, Yeah, I was in I still I was still holding out a little bit of hope. But but no, I'm glad that they stayed true to the story because, like I said, this series ended where it was supposed to end, and that felt good considering all the tangents we've taken. And she got the last word, she really did, which I loved. Yes, shall we hear that? Yes, let's do that. You cannot think I would harm you? Do you think life is nothing more than not being dead? Good point. M our father would hate you for this, and yet he did nothing to prevent it. Also true, I strove to honor his philosophy until I saw that it would be the realm undoing. As a beetle that emerges on the cusp of summer has lots of colors, blue, gold, purples. It looks like a turtle. Have you ever noticed it? I can't say. You can only find it in King's Landing. It sustains itself on the waste of other creatures. Hm hmm. It's beautiful. Well, when summer returns. You'll have to tell me so patronized. You don't care about it. You're pretending mm hmm all the things you care about. Ugly, this place, this is ugly. Yeah, yourself. Ugly, eat or you will force my hand m hmm. And it's touch. So this scene was great, it was really good. But for me, it's that it's always the humor that gets me. It's just the way the line is delivered. You are and they really come to really quickly, and I just I always get this sense of sibling when they have these little turket in moments together where they bicker, and even in this really abstract moment, it's still for me boils down in two sisters like ugly. But she's right, she's right, and she's always been cookie Helena that no one listens to, and she's genuinely the only person that's really seeing what's going on. And Rania should know that now that she knows that she's a dreamer and she's still not listening. Nina came in there ready to forcefeed her. The pot was ready, that the men were ready to do the job they only needed or not. Yeah, you're not listening. You don't care. No, she doesn't, she doesn't. Yeah, absolutely. I think I heard a couple of people saying last week, and I wish I thought of it myself, but they said that last week Rania was shaking or really a magicate ball. There was an end of that at the beginning of this as well, but Elena's not willing to be shaken anymore. She's having none of it. And yeah, it was. It was a very intense scene. I had some issues with it as well, though. I wasn't sure at first. At first. I was just like, oh, right, that was intense, and then I spoke to you and you said that you thought she'd fair and minty, and I was like, no, no, it's soup. It was soup. It was soup. And then I walked away later on that day and I thought, would we better if it was minty? Would have made more sense. Yeah, the consequences and aliving would have made more sense if they had force fed her moon tea then just soup. So maybe they missed a trick there, but otherwise, fantastic scene, brilliant final moments for Fia Sabhan. She acted her week pants off. She was so good. She's been absolutely brilliant. She will be missed. You're so right there in the moon Tea thing, which I didn't even think about when I said about the moon tea thing. No, but I think they moved on. Yeah, but now I'm thinking, hold on, that doesn't even fit with Helena's character. She wouldn't kill her unborn baby. No, so just because she was soup boarded, Yeah, but if she was force fed MONTI, that would have made more sense. Yeah, and it also would have fit with the narrative of her losing baby mail Or in a horrific way. Being force fed moon Tea isn't quite the way that she lost me or No. But yeah, I think you missed a trick there, guys. Yeah. And then of course we had the same with Alison with the butterflies. I love that. That was one of my favorite scene. It was beautiful. Yeah. A lot of people are thinking it's the boot, it's a dig at George again, No, they were the butterflies. I it could be a nod to George without being a dig at George. I don't think it's anything to do with George. I think it's to do with Helena's affinity with bugs, and it's a message. Which is something they planted very early on. Yeah, there's nothing to do with George, and I think people need to let go of that and leave George alone, as we've just discussed. No, I didn't think I wanted to say if it was anything to do with the George thing. I would like to think that it would be more of a see George, we didn't. We did think about this, we got there. I actually think it's more to do with Helena's affinity with bugs and her very too beautiful soul. Depicted as a butterfly or a group of butterflies. That's that's the way she's transcended to her mother, that she's she's gone now and she's at peace, agreed in a horrific way. Yeah, a butterfly is also symbolic in life. We've lost child, is it. Yeah, So maybe it means maybe maybe that's just a coincidence. Maybe it means that too. But I would like to think that there is no dig and if anything, if there is anything to do with Georgian there that there's it's a complement of bringing the story to a conclusion in a way that they felt was fitting. Oh, I see the butterflies. I thought with Helena because she's a dreamer, and butterflies can migrate through generations. So it's that whole using a butterfly. That's the name for that. Again, we talked about this before, maybe talked about this a few months back of maybe last year. About the monarch butterflies. The generational memories monarch. Give me the monarch butterfly epigenetics. Yeah, epigenetics. Yeah, I just went on a monarch butterfly migration. Yeah. So epigenetics is like they did, it's a multi generational cycle basically, that's it. They did this study with butterflies which they put this bad scent in one tunnel and the butterflies stared away from it, and then the next generation of butterflies also stared away from it. There's also evidence of that with the monarch butterfly because they travel from South America to Canada and it takes four generations for them to complete the full cycle. Yeah, so they know where to go in this migration, but this is four generations, so how can they know what the next step is? Yeah? When we stumbled on this last year, we were talking about ten year old kid it was. It was a Japanese kid who did this study and absolutely like blue geneticis minds. Yeah, it was so cool. If I can find the video, I will link it in the description. You need to check this out there. It's so cool. It made me think about my life and how I have this crazy, irrational fear of spiders. Like I live in Scotland. The spiders here are harmless. The level of terror that I feel at spiders is crazy. But my grandfather is from Blize and the spiders there are a little more scary, and it makes me wonder if maybe this is a generational anxiety, possibly because of experiences of ancestors. Interesting, fascinating feel Yeah, look it up, guys. It's so called epigenetics. Very cool. So yeah, to bring this back around to Helena, what were you saying that connected this to Helena? It was about Alison and the butterflies. And I think it's in the behind the scenes that Olivia Cook says that in this moment, Alison. Knows something's not right. Something terrible has happened. She doesn't know what, she doesn't know any of the just this sinking in her heart that she feels it. I didn't know she had one, but. She doesn't in the books take a shot, guys. But yeah, in that moment, Alison feels something and she knows something is wrong, but she's too far away. She has no idea what's going on. So that'll be next season's reaction. Where's Jehetnah? Where's Jeheah? Because we have not seen Jieheah since before Alison and Helena tried to make the escape. So who has her? Ranida has her? Yeah, because Alison didn't set up for her to come with them. So who's who's taking care of her? I wonder because my Saria's packed off with her bag of tricks, isn't she move to text Saria, It's not you, it's me. I'm just not in the right place. I'm in a different era right now. I've decided to stay with my man. Definitely. I'm working on myself and my armor and my makeup. Oh yeah. So at that moment when Rania is deciding that she's going to the Septs and make that happen, and then Elnda Massey's like, is there anything else? And She's like, hmmm, actually you could do this task for me. You could give my side bitch, lots of gold and tell her to fuck off. That would be great. Call her a number. The Mermaids Kiss. That's the name of the ship. Lovely oh dear, so off, depend on she goes. Elinda doesn't understand Massario does. Love that she gets her last spiteful bitten. Oh yeah, her last chance to make a high tower friend. Oh that's what that was. That was so desperate. Do not trust the queen Agon has returned his dragon lives. Your unborn child is a hostage, a prized by which she can hold power over her enemies. She will never release you. Yeah, I think you just see with Helena's fate. My sorry, Oh that's yeah, yeah, that's a terrible thing to do. That's so spiteful. I think in her own weird way, she was trying to give her hope, telling her egg On was alive. But that's not good news for Helena. Like you met Helena? Have you met egg On? Yeah? The window I wanted him to come back, but thank you. Yeah, yeah, for sure. She also so that with the horse and cart. Helena walks in in that moment into the courtyard and sees the horse and cart. It's Massario's horse and cart. But it's exactly the same as from her vision, and it makes me wonder about like the prophecy, it's not again, the way they've written these prophecies is not really the way George writes prophecy. It's George is a little more ambiguous than that, but it is a prophecy trope that someone has these visions and then parts of their visions start coming true, so it makes them go, oh shit, this is how where it's heading. I'm out, I'm done. Also, there was some really cool sound design going on in this scene. So as Helena sees the horse and cart, we hear the strong winds, perhaps the winds of winter, and it's definitely it's not. Her hair is blowing a little in the wind, but the wind we see, compared to the wind we hear, is quite distant. There's much stronger winds that we're hearing as she's seeing the cart. I didn't know it's not on my first watch. It was a later watch. I didn't notice that. But yeah, I thought that was really cool. She sees the horse and cart, she hears the wind, she connects the two and feels like she needs to. Get out, So not just the soup boarding. No, MUNDI would have been better. Yeah, we've been less complicated but still very cool. And props to the sound apartment. I love that. It was very solid. So is it a sign that our dreams are coming true? I think in this narrative maybe, Yeah, I'm not sure that's how George actually writes prophecy, but that's another argument, and maybe we'll make a video about it. But the tapestry was very cool. The tapestry was the last word, which I loved. I love that too. So we've got the of course, Helena falling from the tower, which is tragic and beautiful and so many It's so many different things, isn't it. I love that she sewed herself as beautiful, but she swed her sister as ugly. Yeah, she did the episode before Ranina's totally nipping her head about well what have you seen? What you tell me? Yeah, She's like, I don't know, I don't know anything like leave me alone. I don't. I don't see things in that way. I just see what I say. So she's given her her on the throne. Yeah, and then but I'm out. I'm out. Mic drop well, Helena. Drop, Helena drop I'm right there. And she's yeah, she's surrounded in fire and blood. So wow, so what did you see? We saw dragons and fire and blood surrounding her, and I think from Venera's perspective, that was just like if I bleed, I bleed. I really liked the imagery of her just closing the window on the season. Yeah, I always see the comedy and everything I saw. The comedy that happened was that shutter girl outsite Red who's ugly now sister. Definitely. Yeah, it was a really really it was a great way to close the season. I really enjoyed that, and it was it definitely felt like the shift in Ranida that we've been waiting for. And actually, when I look on this season as a whole again, I think they've done a not bad job of a gradual decline of Ranida to the point that we got to end this episode where we're just like, Okay, she's bad now. Yeah. I think I was concerned about it being too far fast, because they made her more likable in the beginning than she probably actually is. I was concerned that when they made her not so good that it was going to be jarring for people like Danny, how. Are you going to go from Realm's delight grieving mother to everyone hates you in a way that the viewers are going to be on board with that? And so, yeah, fair enough. And I struggled with it a little bit at the beginning of the season, but where we've landed, I think I'm okay with it now. I'm going to say I don't think I engaged my brain cells properly, and I was on that Whitewater raft just hating all the way through the middle of that season, and then I've just got to the season finale and gone, okay, guys, I see what you did there. This is why you're writers, and I'm not. There could be something in that. Yeah, I feel like now I see the arc, and I think it was hard to see the arc because the arc was so far off book. But like I said at the beginning of the episode, this dragon was off course, and yet somehow they landed it in the right place. And I felt this with Rania's arc, I felt it with Helena's not so much with allscence, but we'll get to that later and we're almost there anyway, because I don't I think we're pretty much done on that sad to see Helena go. Now it was coming thinking they did it in a really good way. Anything I had, okay, So I think all that's left to really discuss now is the battle. So I call dragons yay yy. So when was the MVP again giving him that? Darron says, God, how we face them all? And GWayne says, bravely and pointlessly, very true. Humbleton is great. I loved this. I've I thought I've been so confused all season about who's which sides and were like and why everybody it's all backwards, But when we get to this episode, I'm like, it doesn't matter because everybody fucking loses, particularly the people of Tumbleton. Yeah, and so do weally didn't matter who was inside and who was outside. So absolutely brilliant. A few additions though, like those. Kids being brought in That was horrific. That was awful. So we first see this in this particular scene with Whaene and there on they see these little kids being marched in, and again Daryl sees Ormond getting all hyped up and worked up because John Roxton's just told him that Wolf can't be found. Yeah, and He's like something's wrong Wayne again, We're all going to die. Yeah, that's what's wrong. When Yeah, that's definitely what's wrong. And it's like no with Uncle Daron again, like dy don't wanting to fight Darn saying that he wants to. You know, people are going to die for him. He should be there fighting. This is the whole reason for everything that Gwen does next, everything, releasing Corliss, everything this is about Darn feels compelled to fucking jump in here and fight. So he's got to protect him. And he needs to protect him because he's because he's a good soul. Yeah, and he he's going. To die doing the right thing. Negotiating with Damon, I don't know. Fun. That was fun. Do you remember that there's ancient bad blood between those two? Yes? From episode one? Yeah? Yeah, and it was the attorney. Did Damon not mutually Gwen's horse and kind of cheat? Yeah, yeah that happened. I'd forgotten all about it for a while, and it just suddenly dawned on me again this week. I was like, oh, yeah, I love the moment when Damon just giving his was it when he's given his big speech? I'm not sure? Was that later? No, that's later sorry when somebody comes over and says a high Tower night approachase and Dame's like, so kill him, but this is gone, come to give his his terms. And this brings me back to the point about Allison being so far away because this was actually Allison's suggestion in the Book's the one. Well, it wasn't useful because nobody accepted her terms, but she made the suggestion that darn kudrow from what she made the suggestion of a compromise, and because the House of the Dragon team have sent her off on a well goose chase to harn Hall that turns out to be totally pointless in context. She is not around to do the one useful thing that she actually does in the. So that's why Gwen didn't die in King's Landing and he's now in Tumbleton. Okay, exactly because he had to do the thing that Allison wasn't available to do, because they did this extra thing to give her more screen time. Okay, fine, Yeah, that's where we're at glossing over that, because overall, I love this episode and Allison will be back in King's Landing soon at the beginning next season. So all is well in the world. Like I said, they landed it in the right place. But yes, the only thing that Alison does useful at this time of the story, she is unavailable to actually do, thus extending the life of her brother who we love. We do. We have definitely grown at love Gwen. I can't believe I love Gwaen High Tower. I would never have thought that reading the books that I would love GWayne High Tower. No, I didn't see that one coming. No, Freddie Fox props. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, this parley discussion, I love that Gwyene's hiding behind Corle through the whole thing. It is so funny in that moment when Corlis is like giving his speech to Damon about you know this could actually work, think about this. But he turned around and he looks at Quaen as if to say, can I have more chain please? I'm trying to make a dramatic Statement's like, oh it's sorry, here, have a little bit more rope. The Demon's like, I thought they're taking your tongue as well as a finger. Yeah, it was good because he was completely silent up to that moment. He's like, oh you do speak. He's literally just a human shield. So yeah, of course it's like, what do you want? You want you're on the throne, or do you want pilot dead hide towers? What do you think? So Damon, it was very fitting for his character, but what GWayne was proposing was not the same as what Carlos was proposing. Carlos was very much like, no, whoa, how about we just make him lord paramount. It's like the most tense bordroom meat and never was like, Okay, love your idea going, but let's run with this. Yeah wait, that's not what I proposed. Shut up, just stay out with the grown ups are talking. Yeah, so yeah, that was It was all very very funny, but of course Damon was like, fuck that, I want to fight. Although I have to say then when he went into the tent with Roddy and Alice and the others of Scart et cetera, he was like, look, listen, we need to think we're representing our queen here. We need to hold back. Ali, of course, is like, sounds boring. Yeah, I love that. I love that. The only other shot we have of our she's on horseback, fire and arrows, just taking people out. Racky blood rider. Yeah, yeah, it was bad ass. I love it. It was so good. She's actually had one line and one line of dialogue and one line of a song all season. But we're loving the character. Want to see more of our like, please use her next season. I don't feel like Roddy was brilliant in this episode, but I don't think he was used well enough up to now. Tommy Flanagan wasn't used well enough. No, I actually thought that Tommy Flanagan is charging by the by the word. Yes, that could be something. He did not have a lot of lines, but definitely a presence in this episode without a doubt. Loved him in this tent scene as well. I love this. It's like you remember you said you were going to die for the Queen. I show me the way. Yeah, it was so good. It was very, very funny. It's like you're not to die until you've opened the gate. Yeah, gate first, die later. Got it. Absolutely brilliant, so good. And then we've got Damon giving his rousing speech. I want to see the worst of you. He says, well, that's not in line with what you just said in the tent. No, no, no, not at all. Love the Northern Hacker. That was cool. Was so cool. I definitely brought some atmosphere and it was absolutely terrifying to the poor kids on the battlements. Oh one of them had a wee weie washa. Oh yeah, the other one puked. Oh it was so sad. I was very worried for them. I did love that moment with the rod and he's like, Okay, I send your fucking arrows. The wee guy next to him gets it. Actually, speaking of we guys next Daim during the hacker, the wee guy that was kind of front with him. Yeah, he was crazy. It was so good. He was so possessed, he was into it. I was like, look, kept looking at him, going, I know that guy, like I don't know if I've seen him in something, but there was just something about this mad, crazy look in his eyes, and I know there's something. I was like, I feel like I've seen this before. But he was in the moment. Loved it, loved it. We said it's so mad, so wild. Oh I can think about is Karaxes Raxes in that battle armor. Oh well, yeah, we're calling dragons, so let's talk about some dragons. Definitely, Karaxies was brilliant in this. I love that parting of the soldiers, like yeah, Demon's like Karaxes and they just part in Karacs is like badass. Yeah, just through there, like check that swagger. Yeah, like there's that there's a hold back there, Like Demon's still got Ranina's words in his head, like yeah, we're not going to roast these kids on the battlements. No, But then it does get to a point where it's like, well, okay, for cars, we've given you thirty second. Head start, so yeah, definitely, I'm. Maybe skipping ahead a bit. But while we're on the subject of Karaxies, the little kids outside the main door and Damon does hesitate and I think two of them do get roasted. I think maybe one of the two might have got out the way just. But those two that remained and then they sort of run off and then. It's like one of them definitely got it. Yeah, yeah, at least one of those two. Our famous Koraxi's head just fashion through those burning doors, like here's Karaxes. It's brilliant, Yes, definitely. And the roar and the open mouth, No, that was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Yeah, definitely. It was great in the behind the scenes as well, watching them pull this off, how they put it all together. If you guys don't watch behind the scenes, please go and check it out because words cannot describe the work that these guys put in. And yeah, this director when he heard it, he was directing his episode, So I want a scale model of Tumbleton, and I'm going to get my little soldiers going to play and my wife's going to think I'm crazy, but yeah, very good. Also props to Andrew Perek for like the emotional side that he brought to this as well. He's a Ukrainian national and it was important to him to portray the horrors of war on the ground. Yeah, and I mean, we'll go back to moments of the battle, but I think that was really well portrayed. When you have that everything's kind of gone a bit silent, and it's mothers scooping up their kids, people are injured, they're just trying to escape the horrors of what's happening, and there's smoke everywhere, and it's sad. It was even for someone like Damon Targeria, and it took him aback. He was in shock. Going aback though. Let's go back for all of that fight with John Roxton, Oh wow. Yes, that was definitely that was a proper. Punch up, wasn't it. Oh well yeah, and we had Valerian swords. Oh, this is it. Yeah, we've got Orphan Maker, We've got Dark Sister. Orphan Maker's way bigger than Dark Sister, and John Roxton's way bigger than Damon though. This is where we're at. Yeah, armor wise, they're both of the best of the best. Yeah, but John's bigger and so's his sword. That was a brilliant punch up that we never saw coming, and I'm so glad we got to see. It. Was very cool. I love the like I wrote in my notes is like Damon's looking for Armond, he finds John Roxton and to be fair, saved him. Do you know It took me a moment when he was like. Kinslayer and I'm like what how was he a King's Oh yeah, and then he's like baby Killer, like oh ship, yeah that was him with little little Jess. Yeah so yeah, yeah yeah so and then and then there's the fact that probably definitely killed his wife. As much as we all love to be a demon fan, in that moment, when John Roxton delivers those lines, you're very much on his side of come on the big man, smash and their son. Definitely like like from John Roxton's perspective, this is who Damon is. Wow, well earned titles. It was a really good fight. And if it wasn't for a Wolf, Demon was done, like John was going to have him. Wolf saved Damon's life unbeknownst to him. So wow, loving that. I really love this on the ground thing that they had gone on. We got the bit with you. Was it just before that fight? Demon sees him and he's like, cat Cat, where are you? Yes? So yeah, just no, it's just after it just before John. Yeah, he he sees Hugh shouting cat Cat and he's like having away, what's going on here? He'd already seen the dragon Land and knew that he was there. Yeah, and then he saw him again and he's sort of clocked right, Okay, I see your agenda and I'm going to have to deal with that later. Yeah, that was that was the vibe. But there was so much going on. It was like, Okay, that's a problem for tomorrow. Yeah, that's tomorrow's Damon problem. And then, of course, like you said, this is where we get Kinslayer, right then brilliant fight. Loved it. Little extra addition to Tumbleton I never knew I wanted. Yeah, so good. Well, we're on the subject of Hugh and Cat did feel really sorry for him when he finds her. So it seems like she was just collateral damage. We saw the scene before. She's obviously died off screen, but we've seen the scene before where soldiers are burst in and then other soldiers of the other side have burst in and she seems to have been thrown as a human shield kind of and collateral damage. It's sad. It's it's really sad. Again. It's this arc that wasn't perfect, but they landed it. We saw where they were going. I think we saw where they're going when we're back in season two when they first introduced you and Cat and his daughter, and he's going to lose his wife, that's what that's what's going to make him turn turn and so we saw this coming. I just think that they didn't lay it out as well as they could have. But you can also see that the attention to detail was there, and other things like Ormond and things like that. This character that isn't fleshed out in the books and yet they've given him so much presents. Are we going to discuss Ormond's flesh? I don't know what you mean, flesh, Ormond's flesh. Ormond dies so much fucking flesh exposed even in his mouth. Oh yeah, it's just because he used the word flesh, and I'm like, what does she mean in particular. Chops off an armand and he's got flesh on his face and he's booking, And. Of course we're going to discuss that. But let's do that first of all, Ormond, that first moment when he realizes it's all going to ship and he's marching around the town where the fuck is elf in Caraccis it was flying overhead. He's just like a double Mets. So let's discuss Ormond in a in a sensible time frame here. Actually, let's reel this in. So the nighttime and then the next time we kind of see him. Yeah, and then he finds let's talk about when he finds Oof. Well, specifically, this is this, This turns the tide of the whole entire battle. To be honest with you, I felt the tension the whole way through with the wolf being missing, like, oh wait, is it going to fuck them over, and it was definitely this vibe of who is Wolf going to betray? Here going on? So, I mean, as part of the books, we knew going to portray the Blacks. But Ormond was. Sleeping in a privy with his parts down. He was blessing, he was he was out for the count and the smell must have been. Well, this is one of the flaws that I thought, Hold on a minute, why is I know Ormond really mad, but why is he not wretching? He did have a little one. He did have a wee heave and miss little. He definitely had a heave the second the privy door opened, and he will then he got these guys to drag him out. But he did definitely had a heave. But oh for sure, I was definitely a noxious environment. It was probably very triggering to him. It's just like modern day portaloo, isn't it. But I mean he's on a more serious level. He's just laid out everything else wanted to hear about being respected and I see you and none of these other guys do, but I see how important you are, and it's everything else I ever wanted to hear. And oh, I can't believe they beat you in the street and embarrassed you like that. And then he does exactly the same thing. Well he does it worse. He does it with his pants down. He does his pants were round his ankles. Yeah, it was way worse. And at this point I couldn't blame Wilf for turning on Ormond. I can blame him for Bernie innocence. But at this point, fuck you two. Yeah, so good. So before we get to fuck you too. Yeah, we are a bit and let's do Ormond. So while Ormond is up on the battlements, Roddy has fulfilled his task. He has and made it in. Yeah, he said, right, gates open, you guys, go, I'm going to find fucking high tower. I love that line. Is like he's like the gays rope of guys, we're still alive, like ah, And it was a bit cheesy, but I kind of here that I'm here for that. It was so funny. Oh fuck, we're still here, but we're going to die this way now, all right, Yeah, let's go, and off he goes. He's like, I am finding Ormond high tower. You just go and find the boy king. Like to mention at this point, the boy King is unconfirmed at the end of this episode, so interesting choice. But anyway, so they've they're on the way end. He's on the hunt for the Ormond High Tower. Damon's on the hunt for Ormond High Tower as well, but finds John Roxx. Then not so good Roddy comes over the wall. I actually like to think about these the point that when they're charging the wall and the boulders start getting thrown with the trevy shades or capolts or whatever. I'm I'm not equipped to discuss siege weapons. I can name them, but I don't know which ones they were using because I was so engrossed in the human drama off all. But anyway, they were. The stones when the people, when the guys were running, they were just getting crushed by these catapulti or trevy shade stones. It was really brutal. And then they Roddy gets over the walls. The trenches are lit, so that's kind of cut them off, and they're some of them have made it past the trip before the trenches are lit. They're in and then the wall scenes were a bit brutal. I was a bit sad, but then I thought about it, and I thought Nobody ever said that this Roddy the room was a great guy, and nobody ever said that he was a compassionate guy. Closing the name man exactly. This is the head of house Dustin. He's old Winter's come in and he's like, like, we've come to die for the dragon queen, because dying a glorious death in battle is better than dying in the snows, than starving to death till younger members of your family survive. A lot of these winter wolves have come for their glorious death. And that's what he's all about there. And in his defense that we shite try to trip him up. So let's Terry and lannis him in the face, take his beak off, run and they keep moving. I wouldn't worry about his beak being removed. The boy was dead like that was harsh, And my she thought was, oh, why did you have to ruin Roddy? The ruins ruin, you know, and nobody ever. And also Ormond sent the kid up there, and the kid could easily have killed him, and you're in battle. He so absolutely who's to say that he didn't walk away and that kid stab him in the back if he hadn't killed him. That's it. This is the way it's got to be. And I think he gave that vibe on his face. I think Tommy Flanagan did give that vibe of fuck it. I think this is a writing fault, though. I think if they'd given us a little bit more roddy, then maybe that wouldn't have been so shocking. He's been built up to be this great character, and you assume great character means great guy shocking. I thought their battle. I did for about five minutes. I was all the poor bird, but I'm over it, okay. I damps dificient time to run off, and he didn't, and he tried to trip him up. He could have sat there quietly and he thought, now I'll trip up the scary man with a big fucking acts. Well, bye, guy, that's on you, wee man. You're silly. Billy was very silly. I will agree. I love that through all this stuff going on, you've got this to be messenger. Guys one running up to her and going oolf smiss it. And there's another one running up to them and going oolf smith it. Nobody knows where is so score two two strake and I'll be let him pool his pants up first. I could have left them behind. And Gwyene's been at this point running around looking for Dayon as well, And this is the point where we get this encounterway gwyn and Dayreon. So it's been a while since we had a clip. Shall we hear that? Yes, diamonds to a Wilma's city die, but I won't be remembered a crave. I fought beside other brave men who believed that death was the only. Past to glory. Do not die for m's vanity, My boy, myel please, please let's take back. You'll have to come through me to Sarian, sounds like a badass. Yeah, to Sarian's feisty. I did always say she's my favorite dragon, not that we get to see much of her, but. Yeah, there's something about the vibe of this dragon that's going. To have been a cool dragon if she'd been able to be set free instead of been chained up. That is silly Ormond, the whole chaining up of Sorry, and I don't think is book cannon, but it makes sense. It makes sense. Yeah, it could slot into book Cannon quite easily. It's the scene so moving again, this bond between Gwen and Darn my boy. I love it, and it was a good place for that for the season. And we know Darn being missing and Wwayne searching for him, because, to be honest with you, no one else is really there that gives a shit about Darone. So it's good that at this point there's someone else there that that cares where he is and all this chaos. So it's over ives and starts burnt the the Blacks troops. I've wrote here, Why is Corlas still in chains? Yeah? Like, did no one bring the key? Like? What is that? Like? Why is Corla's Like He's back with his own people and he's still got the chains on. Nobody thinks to strike them off. That was interesting. But speaking of Wolf arriving and the thing, Dracaris, did you see the vine the scenes? Yeah? Oh yes I did. I got to say it. Yeah, He's like I had to put the script down. I couldn't believe it. I got to say, Dracaras that was very cool. He is so humble. It really humanizes the role. He's just like his average guy, Like I can't believe him in the middle of all of this. I love him. Great actor. Brings so much to the role. It's really been good. So I think we're we're pretty much at the point Roddy's found Ormond. We're in this fight. Fight. Did you see Roddy fall in the fire pit? Like ormand swings the sword up, he stumbles back a little bit and he falls our first and a fire pit. Oh dear. Then, of course, to bring it to the point that you were trying to raise earlier, Roddy's smashes his face and the shield yeah, his teeth. Oh absolutely messed his face up so badly. And then there's like retaliation stab and an arm chop, the blood squirting in his face and he's heaving. So a few more exchanges it blows between those two guys, and of course. There's the whole He's leaning over the world, leaning over the battlements. Can you imagine from Ormond's point of view, face smashed in, He's already chopped Brody's arm off. He's like, maybe I'm going to win. I don't know. This is fucking horrendous. I'm like broken looking over the battlements. Oh my god, things are on fire that shouldn't be on fire. Are they on fire? I have no idea and then looks up in the sky. Oh dragon, brilliant and then what happens from behind a proper fucking from then. Off, very very good, Like I was just I believe this was just something that was decided on set. The stunt coordinator. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, we really kill if we just because he's been over in prime, so let's do it. Such a good end. And then of course we have this moment when silver Wing zooms in. They both see it coming and Roddy is just like, bring it on. I was going to die for the queen. I'm a winter Wolf. I mean, I've killed this fucker to go. I'm in the winter of my life. Roast me. Brilliant. Definitely, it was almost comical, No, it was comical. It was I thought it was a fantastic end to both those characters. I would have liked to see more build off of Roddy, but the end was executed well. It was great. He was brought in as this character that we're all going to go like, yes, and he delivered so. Other than that, other notes are just about the sound design. When Damon was witnessing the carnage and then going into age rage, and Carlos snapping him out of it. He was feral in that moment, that the eyes were so wide. It was, it was. It was a state we've never seen Damon in. Yeah, very battle crazed, doesn't it. It was, And there was fear as well, fear and craze and the whole thing. Overwhelmed. I'd go with overwhelmed rather than fear. I think that maybe that I would like to translate it to the character that he went into that with an assignment from Nira. Well that's what he's looking around and going, we haven't met the brief we have. We really haven't met the brief. We We fucked up. This is going to backfire massively on our end game here. It doesn't matter whether it was all flipping that. Yeah, the fact is she's a monster in the eyes of the of the people now because we fucking we. We've totally destroyed this town and its people. I have a question. So we see the dragons flying off, and there's three dragons. So vermouthor is chasing Kraxies Who's chasing silver Wing? Right? Yeah? Okay, And I knew it was those three dragons, and then doubted myself and went No, you don't know what's those three. Draxies is riderless and Vermouthor is riderless. Yeah, but Vermouthor is protecting silver Wing. Yeah, okay, correct, there's this dragon love Island, remember, But that's what's going on here. So Kaxies is channeling Damon and just he's a battle hardened dragon and he's dealing with the threat. He sees silver Wing is the threat. So he's chasing Silverwing and Vermouth is like, hey, that's my girl. I love that the dragons have got their own mind. I love that little touch hat. Yeah, and it's a little bit of a set up for next season. No spoilers here, but we will see a bit more of that next year or not next year, two years. Where are my dragons? Do you have any thoughts on the battle anything? I forgot to mention because I think we're pretty much wrapping up. No, I think I'm good. That's it. I've got one more note here. The more it was just a very subtle dragon moment early on, when silver Wings just sitting on the hillside watching soldiers exchange. Just it's like silver Wings just sitting like watching a tennis match, just watching everything going on, and it's like when the messengers have come looking for but OLF's not with silver ring, silver wings. Just watching people. I'm just watching the battle, just digging in the view. This is I think it's actually before Vermatha arrives as well, just like, what's going on here? Then these we idiots are running around? What's going on? There's a wee dragon personality moment. I like that. So that brings us to ip Oh, here we are, here, we are. So today we say goodbye to Helena Targarian. This one hurt. This was really sad, gentle dreamer, loving mother. Far too good for this world. Best in peace, West in Peace, Elena. We also said goodbye to Roddy the Ruin. We did battle hardened Northerner, ready to die in the winter of his life, the dragon queen for whatever life through. Really he was just ready to go out on his terms fa the North. For the North. We also said goodbye to the people of Tumbleton. Many many innocent people. Very sad they did not see what was coming within that we all. We said goodbye to Kat Hugh Hammer's wife. Innocent bystander caught in the crossfire. Tragic. We said goodbye to the high septem. Brutally murdered in the house of his gods. Rest in peace with your gods. And lastly we said goodbye to Ormond High Tower. He was a respected commander with a famously delicate nose and a rather unfortunate tendency to wretch when confronted with the realities of war, which makes being stabbed up the arse, covered in blood and roasted alive by silver ring a particularly poor way to spend an afternoon. At least didn't have to smell himself burning, and to be fair, he was the only one that deserved. A roasting, indeed to rest in peace. Yeah, Fanny ah nice end Emma. I have to say that our ip was hard to be satirical and funny about, but thank you for giving us that. And with that ice deal we have reached the end. We have talked about all the news, Georgie's blog, etc. Please guys, just send out some love to George, not just the usual hurry up and write the books crap because it's hard enough of it, like, just send out some love. Next for us, we are going to see the Mad King and just over a week. Yep, we are very excited about that. We have our legitimacy video, which we have been plugging all season but every episode as a new paragraph, and we have decided that we are going to record said episode while we're on our trip to Stratford to see the Mad King, so that will be coming at you soon. We'll also have our review of the play as soon as it is acceptable to release information about the play, so we will record that once we get back and have it out to you as soon as the Haronhaul God say okay. And then later on in the year, we're going to give you another book to shore if you We're going to do Clash of Kings and season. Two exactly, and just before that comes out, we will be dropping a video version of our Book to Show season one to ease you in, which actually remains our most popular episode to date and so therefore we feel like, you know, video views would like to have a look at that, So that is coming at you soon. So in the meantime, if you want to get in touch, head over to the unrelour dot com. You'll find our episodes and social media links there. Give us a like, follow, or subscribe. You can also leave us a voice message. We might even feature on the show, or just email us at talk at the Unrelour dot. Com, and don't forget to check out our YouTube channel. We've got new videos coming soon, some. Lots of new videos. Stay tuned, subscribe Ring the Bell. And if you love what we're doing, you can support the show at Patreon dot com slash the Unrelour for ad free episodes, early access, and exclusive content. Or you can buy us a coffee at buy me a Coffee dot com Slash the Unrelour. 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