The Game Begins: Book 1 vs Season 1 – Anniversary Special - Part 2 (ACOIAF #18)

Welcome to the Unreal Hour. Hi there, and welcome to our show. I'm Fiona and I'm Emma. And what are we here to do today? Emma? We are giving a breakdown of the first book in the Game of Thrones series and it's called Game of Thrones. A Game of Thrones totally. So for those of you that didn't catch the first half where we broke down the TV show, go back and have a listen. And this is fab This is part two where we're getting into those p o V characters. So so let's get into this POV character by POV character. Let's start with Ned. What did you feel about Ned's character in comparison to Sean Bean's portrayal of them? Oh? Perfect, exactly the same. Yeah, I feel like Sean Bean did a fantastic job and totally nailed Ned. And what about the writing? So, do you feel like the book got gave you more depth to Ned's character? Is probably a better way to word that. Yes, absolutely, I definitely felt So. So what were your standout moments from the book that you feel the show didn't give us. Well, like I said, I think the dream sequences. I think the dream sequences for a lot of the characters were really good. Yeah, they're great. Lots of insight and lots of lore that we didn't get, and lots of backstory yeah we didn't get. Yeah, yeah, I've got a few of them to mention. And also I feel like Ned's Ned's investigation was was it was a lot more in depth. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I feel like there was a gradual progression. The thoughts are going through Ned's head. He's he's almost clicking, but he's not quite getting there. And then he does click. What doesn't he quite want to believe it? And then he's just absolutely sure and there's a there's a progress to it, Whereas I feel like it was quite quite quick in the book, it was in the show. In the show, sorry, So yeah, we're happy with Sean Bean's portrayal of Ned. It definitely gives us the Ned that we out. Yeah, definitely. So the Tower of Joy was mentioned. Yes, it was, and I actually wanted to bring up that. Passage for me, that's it was really interesting because it's not something I knew about. Yeah, So, I having never read the book, that's been my first and. This would be a season seven reveal in the show. So This was really cool for me to to find out these things earlier in the story. Yeah, it'll it gives you more, doesn't it. It definitely does. I think that. I think that the it was very obvious to book readers from book one, the story of John's parentage, because of Ned's dream sequences and his inner monologue has thoughts. The fever dream that he has in which he recalled the Tower of Joy give us a big thing. But this line, this repetitive line, promised me, Ed promised me. It comes at many other times throughout the book. It's it's littered throughout that first book. I think one moment that stands out to me is when Robert and him are arguing about killing Danny and he can hear Leanna's voice saying, promise me, Ed, promised me. So yeah, it's It's funny how something that was left till season seven is this big reveal was very obvious to book readers from the get go. So yeah, I really really really enjoyed that. Shall we hear a little bit of that Ned's fever dream, Yes, let's do that. He dreamt an old dream of three nights and white cloaks and a tower long fallen, and Leanna in her bed of blood. In the dream, his friends rode with him as they had in life. Proud Martin castle Joy's father, Faithful, Theo will Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon's squire, Sir Mark Riswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart, the Cranigman Howland Reid, Lord Dustin on his great red Stallion ned had known their faces as well as he'd known his own. But the year's leech at a man's memories, even though he had vowed never to forget, In the dream they were only shadows, gray wraiths on horses made of missed. They were seven facing three in the dream, as it had been in life, Yet there were no ordinary three. They waited before or the round tower, the red mountains of Dorn at their backs, and the white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows. Their faces burned clear even now. Sir Arthur Dane, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips, the hilt of the great Sword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Sir Oswell Went was on one knee, sharpening his blade up with a wet stone across the white enameled helm, the black bat of his house spread across its wings. Between them stood fearsouled Sir Gerald, high Tower, the White bull, Lord, commander of the King's Guard. It looked for you on the trident. Ned said to them, we were not there. Sir Gerald answered, woe to the usurper if we had been, said Sir Oswell. When King's landing fell, Sir Jamie Sluer king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were far away, Sir Gerald said, or adies would yet sit the iron thrown, and our false brother would burn in seven hells. I came down on Storm's End to lift the sage. Ned told them, and the Lord Tyrrell and red Wine dipped their banners, and all the knights bent the knee to pledge his feelty I was certain you would be among them. Our knees do not bend so easily, said Sir Arthur Dane. Sir William Darry has fled to Dragonstone with your Queen and Prince Vssirees. I thought you would have sailed with them. Sir William is a good man and true, said Sir Oswell, but not of the King's Guard. Sir Gerald pointed out. The King's guard does not flee then or now, said Sir Arthur. He donned his helm. We swore a vow, explained Old Sir Gerald. Ned's wraiths moved up beside him with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. And now it begins, said Sir Arthur. Dayne. The sword of the Morning he unsheathed on and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milk, glass, alive with light. No, Ned said, has sat with sadness in his voice. Now it ends, and they came together in a rush of steel and shadow. He could hear Leanna screaming, Edard. She called arm of Rose, petls bleue across the bloodstreak, sky as blue as the eyes of death, Lord red Ard. Leanna called again. I promise, he whispered, Leah, I promise, Lord red Ard. A man echoed from the dark, groaning the edyard Dark opened his eyes, and light streaming through the tall windows off the tower of the hat. There's so much cool stuff in that dream. Oh, Like there's lower drops and history drops and everything. We're getting some of these, like major players from the time of King Aries. Sir Arthur Dane, the Sword of the Morning and the Sword Dawn. We've got that pale as milk glass line describing Dawn, which also used to describe the White Walkers, which is also used to describe the Ghost Grass. So yeah, very very very cool chapter. It is a cool chapter. Another part of that chapter, in line with the same story about the town of Joy, that they had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away, Edward Stark himself and the little Kranic man, Howland Reid. He did not think that omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years. And this was on the back of deciding where Johnny's going to be buried. Yeah, so buried with his grandfather. Yeah, Martin Castle had perished with the rest. Ned had pulled the tower down afterward and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. It was said that Regar had named the place the Tower of Joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory. Yeah, that's cool. And I don't know any of this stuff, so read and I was like. Oh my god, that's I just remembered what the other thing I was going to say was. It was it was about the when they's describing the King's Guard is describing them that it's again, it's that it's very that they're metaphor for the others, the King's Guard. Oh, in their white cloaks, white shadows. The White Walkers are always described as pale shadows, and so are the King's Guard. Often it's symbol as but it also is it working up to something? Is there something going to happen with the King's Guard later and maybe wins that likens them even more to the others, because that has been foreshadowed right from the beginning. So I thought that was quite interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. It's very cool. So did you have any other thoughts on Ned other than. That he was very, very true to the character that I've first seen in the show. No, I don't think so. It comes across the loving father, loving husband, very honorable man. That's exactly what we saw, wasn't it. Yeah, definitely the one thing that I would like an observation, not so much of the character or the right end or anything. It's one of me. It's about them and slightly is it the fact that Ned has way more chapters in book one than anybody else, maybe even a couple of other characters combined, and he still has more. He definitely the girls. There's another or dream that you had about the crypts of winter Fell. Yes, yes, When I was scouring to find the passage for that one, that one popped up, and I think that's the next chapter, roughly before or just after, Yeah, a couple after. Do you have some thoughts on that? I do, so. The passage is he was walking through the crips beneath the winter Fell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him past with eyes with eyes of ice, and the dire wolves at their feet turned their great stoneheads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Leanna beside him. Promised me. Ned Ranna's statue whispered, She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood. Oh, goosebumps, it's dead creepy. It is really creepy. There's there's so much going on there, there's so much depth to this story, and you're intrigued and you're sucked in and you want to know more. And and then he dies, I know you're never going to get those answers. The only person alive that knows the answers is Highland read. Yeah, he's the only man standing. There's another creepy there's one where he says well, Ned reached out his hand to grasp the flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals the thorns lay hidden. He felt them clawing at his skin, sharp and cruel, saw the slow trickle of blood run down his fingers, and woke trembling in the dark. Promise me, Ned, His sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses. God save me, Ned wept, I am going mad. Yes, so good. It's so good. Because he's Yeah, he's in a bad way by this point. This is like Edward fifteen, so it's just about for the chop. I think that's about his last chapter. So I think that's the last crazy dream that he has. Yeah, that sounds about right. Do you have any other thoughts? The scene with him and Jamie played out differently, Yeah, Like the horse had fallen over on his leg. Jimmy wasn't even there at that point. How do he left at that point. Yeah, Oh, Ned sees him going off and he shouts joy because Johnny comes back and he tells him to go. And then at that point, while he's telling him to go, the horse rears up and lands on Ned's leg, and then Ned's just oh, and he sees all the swords coming down on Jory, and then he's sort of passing out and up and then Bailish comes back with a He comes back. Is it with the King's Guard? He comes back the cold clothes. Yeah, the good guys, not the bad guys. Anyway, he comes with people and then they load Ned on a cart and then he's passing in and out and then I think he's that's him. Oh. The last thing he remembers is Master Piecel have the milk. Of the poppy. I'm going to mention the milk of the poppy. I've got a lot to do with these dreams. Dream totally tripping out, man. But yeah, no, that scene that that's interesting to me. I'd forgotten that Jamie had started to head off because. It is coming back for him. Yeah, that's like he's kind of a bit nicer than that. He does do it in the TV show. He does say I'll go get the gold clocks. Do we don't see him coming back zoomed out shot and Ned passing out on the floor, whereas in the book, if I remember rightly, he's crawling over to Joy's broken body. Yeah, and he's holding Joy. Yeah. Yeah, definitely so sad. It changes the dynamic of Jamie's part in this as well, because in the show it's portrayed through that great conversation between Jamie and Taiwan that Jamie was going to kill him, but because one of the other guards stabbed them, it was you know, it wouldn't be sportsman like to you know, and that's not what happened. Yeah, that's not what happened in the book at all. So what can you remember? What it was? The like Jamie's parting shot as he went away? Why did he walk away from the fight. The conversation went down that Jamie had said, do you remember my brother the little guy? And Ned had said, yeah, well, basically Cat's got them, So if you kill me, Kat's going to kill your brother. And Jamie had said, I don't think a noble woman like Kat is going to do that. However, and now I know this, like basically he's not going to trust the honor of a woman or something like that. And then he about turns and then sets as well, sets as dogs essentially on Ned and his men. Right, one of his men throws a spear and it goes through someone's someone's torso, and then it all kind of kicks off a bit. But yeah, Jamie's standing back and no getting involved. Yeah, I forgot that. I forgot that the show version is so imprinted in my head that even although I read the book really recently, had forgotten that there's more. There's more light and shade with the characters in the book, which I really like. They're they're they're badder, yes, which, yeah. They've danced in the gray of all these characters, Tirian especially, I feel that, but we could talk about that more elier when we talk about Terrian. The darker characters are way darker, and the honorable characters have shades the gray. Yeah, Aslu, Yeah, definitely, definitely they've pged it a little bit for TV, which is strange saying they've pged anything in Game of Thrones, but they they have. They've they've made the good guys and the bad guys very clear, whereas in the book there's a little gray in everyone. Even the bad guys have a backstory but you know, made them bad. Yeah, no, babies are born bad. And we do get that in the show, but not not like we do in the book. No, not at all, not at all. Right, So we got anything any other thoughts on ned before we move on. That's everything from my notes. So yeah, the only other thing here in the notes that I've got is the just that that it's time with that his time with Varis and Renley. There's a lot less of that in the show. There really is. He's clearly building a relationship with Varis, and he clearly has a relationship with Renley. Yeah, you know, Renley being his best friend's we brother. So yeah, there's definitely a relationship there that doesn't really come across in the TV shows at all. Not at all, and Renley comes across totally different in the book. Yeah. Yeah, Well, since he's not a POV, we might as well discuss that just now. He is. He's a big, strong Barathian. Yeah, like he should have described as he could be Robert when he was young. Absolutely, he is a young Robert. He's he's strong, he's he's got lots of green Man energy, you know, storm King energy, all of that stuff going on, whereas he's just a bit weedy in the TV show. Yeah, I mean he has plans in the book, is kin Ivan, like we were saying about you know these are the. Good guy Yeah, yeah, and he's he doesn't come across. Like that in the show. No, no, no at all. He's more handsome in the books in my mind. Yes, yeah, definitely, I'll give. You that shade to the actor. No, No, a could look man as well. No, ma cup of tea, but. He could traditionally in a sort of fantasy way. Yeah, he's Yeah. He's burley and strong and yeah, yeah, yeah definitely. So yeah, there's a there's a there's definitely a lot more of Renley and Ned interaction, and the same with Varus. There there's a relationship build there, whereas in the show it's like the first connect we see between Varus and Eddard just when he's already in the cells. But it was, I mean, they had conversations before that. There was definitely he was feeding them some whispers and stuff like that. But no, I think Ned was starting to trust them. And in the way, the only way you can trust a spider. You know, he's he knows he's not trustworthy, but he also feels like he's whatever he's telling him, he's telling him true. He might run off and tell somebody else what he said, but he's not lying to him. He doesn't feel that at all, apart from his big secret master plan that he's not letting on anybody. But we'll talk about that a bit as well. But yeah, I definitely felt that those relationships were a bit rushed from a TV show perspective. Why focus on a relationships that they're going to end very soon when the character dies, I'm making a face. She is making a face. So I think that's us for Ned. Let's talk about Cat. She was. She was a lot more politically active in the book. She was there making decisions or not making decisions as such a trusted advisory role. Yeah, she came across as a respected figure. Yeah, definitely definitely what notes you got for Cat? I thought she was quite similar in the show to what she was in the book. I wasn't surprised by anything that I read in the book other than that there was more. It was just a more in depth version of Cat. Yes, yes, because you've got her in her monologue of course, So they get. The same again with Ned, I think her. Her pain and her turmoil, and her love for her boys, Brand and Rickon specifically. Brand specifically, Brand is her favorite. Without a doubt. Yeah, but her love for her boys comes across a lot stronger in the books, and her pain at being separated from whereas in the show I felt like it was like, you know, she sat by his bed and then when it was time to move on, she moved on. And there was never really much more mention of Bran. I'm not saying she didn't stop to think about and worry about, of course she did, but more in the book, much more. Absolutely, Rob had to have a conversation with her and say, look, come on, you've You've got rick On. He's three, he needs you. Yeah. I think also we get more of a sense of where she's come from. Yeah, she's very torn between her Tully Yeah, and Tully ancestry. We get more of our past, We get more about her relationship with her sister, and more about her betrothal and that story. Yeah she loved him. Yeah, Well we don't get that Ned was the the Consolation Prize. No, not that either. She loved Brandon and yeah, well it's like he's dead so you can have him now. And she was very lucky that she found love with Ned too. Yeah it might it could have gone very differently, but she definitely she loved Brandon. I liked her. Story about now you have to keep me right here? Is it the Weeping Woman or something? It's a mountain, isn't it is a mountain? Is a statue? Is a statue on top of a mountain? I'm unclear. It's very Lady Forlorn, It's very Lord of. The Rings, eh, And I like that whole This happened a really long time ago, and we don't know if it's real or not. It's like a little folklore from that world. So I really quite enjoyed that. And it's not something you see Cat doing in the show. So it was quite nice to hear her character having these thoughts and having these stories in our mind, and it just it builds more of her. It's just nice to see. The Lady Forlorn story now. Something about her. All of the men and her family were killed, and she cried and cried and cried until is it a waterfall or something, and and then and that's what's named after. And she feels that, she feels she could be that. Yeah, that's the emotion that she's feeling because everything is going to ship. Yeah. And that climb to the top of it, to the area scary that. Is getting We don't see that in the show. We don't really. Yeah, the climbing where the staircase gets really narrow and there's no rail, there's nothing. That's like my worst worst nightmares come true, not going to lie. That terrified me that after she's terrified, and yeah, yeah, I'm right there with her. So yeah, that was pretty cool. Trust the Donkey. Yeah, really interesting that what you were saying about the the Lady for Learned thing, because it's one of those bits that I've read and I know about it, but I can't really remember the story. So I'm glad you wrote that up. I quite like to look into that again, I think so. I think possibly she was thinking about Brandon dying as well, like all of that and our maybe our father being unwell, and first only read it once. So yeah, apologies if i've Yeah, but it was it was cool, and it's something that wasn't in the show. That got me going, oh, that's cool. So what other notes did you have on Cat this being your first time reading all? Well, Another thing that I thought was really cool that I didn't know, and this came from a cat chapter, is it's actually about Winterfall when winter fell, rather than you know when you listen to that audiobook. Yes, and he says winterfall. Do you not just want to stab yourself in the ear? Yes, yes, like. Edit this out, but oh my fucking god man. And every time he says patire. Or in the same sentence where he said Caitlin and then Catlin. Yep, we did that a few times. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. Fantastic narrator, I couldn't do it. Well done, But did nobody say that's not right? Pal? And yeah, pronounce it however you want, but at least stick to the same pronunciation all the way through. Never wavered on attire though didn't he did, not, never. Never. Okay, So back to the thing I thought was really cool, and it's about winter Fell. So the passage is of all the rooms in winter Fell's great Keep, Catlin's bedchambers were the hottest. She seldom had to light a fire. The castle had been built over natural hot springs, and the scalding waters rushed through its walls and chambers like blood through a man's body, driving the chill from the stone halls, filling the glass gardens with a moist warmth, keeping the earth from freezing. Open pools smoked day and night in a dozen small courtyards. That was a little thing in summer. In winter, it was a difference between life and death. That's so cool. That had its own heating system. But there's some there's some legends as to why. Ah, brilliant, this is why I brought this up. So we all we know about the hot springs, but there are theories out there that perhaps there's a secret dragon beneath winter Fell, down in the crypts. And it comes from Jesse and Aras. Is it Arak Vermax? Arax was the little one. Arax was the little one. That died with in the fight. Yes, yeah, so Vermax, Yes, that's right. So yeah, it comes from Jesse and Vermax that perhaps when Jace visited winter Fell, which he visited for a lot longer than he did in House of the Dragon, that perhaps the dragon Arax had laid some eggs beneath the crips of Winterfield, because the cripsall connected tunnels, and so the ideas is that maybe the dragon got in through one of the other tunnels. And I love that. And there's a bit there's a bit of spook going on there Fell, isn't there. But that theory comes from the one and only Mushroom. So I mean, what do we think he was never there? He knows nothing about what happened up there. We do know how Mushroom sometimes likes to embellish, yeah, for dramatic effect. I have a question. What was your question? My question that I've not found out yet obviously just reading book one, and I don't recall it from any of the shows that I've watched. So King's Landing and the Red Keep Megor built that, and he built his tunnels? Who built winter Fell? And who who built the crypts? What? How old is that? Do you know? It's Brand the Builder? All right? Okay? Apparently so no agone built the Red Cape finished it, and he did the secret passages. But yeah, the winter Fell was built by Brand the Builder. So the legends say, but Brand the Builders give them credit to a lot of buildings that maybe but I think if any are true, if Brand the Builder is a real character that really did exists heavily implied to be a Stark, so yes, I would say winter Fell is probably true, and the wall is probably Fells Old Old Winter Fells Old, definitely. It is one of the first engine capes. It's apparently worded with with mad at least the crypts are. So that's really cool. What were the two bottom collapsed chambers? What were they? So the theories are that maybe there's a that maybe there's other green Seers down there, like blood Raven okay, hooked up to the trees and they're werewood thrones. That's pretty cool. So yeah, I really think that that's a really cool, plausible and interesting. Oh yeah. One of the other theories is just that the secrets of John's parentage is down there somewhere to well. Yeah. But the the most plausible theory that I can find online regarding the crypts is that it's the heavy foreshadowing that these stone statues are going to come to life. Right, Okay, there's a prophecy about the Horn of Winter's rumor to to wake giants from the earth, So what if it's connected to Winterfell, the Horn of Winter winter Fell, and that its purpose is to wake the starks of old. So that mean Leanna would come back. Possibly, yes, So generations of starks have been buried there since, so we're talking that this would be something that we go back to the Knights King and potentially the Long Night as well as a defense, a defense mechanism to call on should things go awry again. And this whole thing about the giants making of these these statues, they do not do them justice in the TV show. They are described as giant like themselves. So I think it's Theon. There's a there's a few examples of this, but this is the one that's that can remember clearly. Theon is down there and he he's taken Barbarie Dustin down to because she wants to see branding because that's her old lover. You'll get to that, right. But he takes her down there. He did the way he describes like that he's looking up at this statue, but they're sitting down, so you know, he's a full grown man standing looking up at this statue of this winter King sitting down. So they're huge. They're absolutely huge, And the show didn't do them justice. Although they are still very cool in the show. I will give them that. They are very cool, but they're not big enough. So that's the most plausible Winter Crypt winterfil Crypt theory that I have heard. I think it's good. Yeah, that's pretty good, and I'll look forward to getting Yeah, I really do. This will be something to keep an eye on. Yeah, while I'm working my way through reading the books and learning more about the world. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully I'll find out some more answers to things that I don't know. Well. Yeah, later on, I know you love the dreams. Later on, John has a recurring dream about the crypso winter Fell. Oh, that'll be worth looking out for. Awesome, I'm excited for that. Yeah. In fact, I think I actually have the quote here. Oh cool, So what we got? Where did I put it? Oh? Yeah? And then I find myself in front of the door of the crypt. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down somehow. I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what we might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps. But it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark. This isn't my place. But it's no good. I have to go anyway, So I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way, it gets darker and darker, until I want to scream. He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. That's when I always wake, And. That is. Quite early on with Sam. Actually in the book it must have just got lost, and right somewhere there's another one as well. He has it again later, it's sort of shorter. One last night he dreamt the winter Fell dream again. He was wandering and wandering the empty castle, searching for his father, descending into the crips. Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark, he heard the scrape of stone and stone. When he turned, he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other as the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves. John had woken in the pitch dark, his heart hammering. No wonder what a terrifying dream. Is, isn't it? It's crazy, but Yeah, so that's John's reoccurring dream and it goes on, carries on throughout the books, so keep your eyes peeled for it. I think there's meaning there. It's totally awesome. The winter Fell has hot tubs. It is, isn't it. I love it, you know, like just being a lady and all that. I love for Cat that she has the warmish room in the castle. And it's quite interesting that scene actually, because like her and Ned have just had sex and you know they're they're totally naked as the day they were born. And mister Lewin comes in with the with the note Cat's totally naked. She gets up and deals with the note, burns, et cetera, and that it's like doing women. He's like, he's delivered all of my children, he's seen me naked before, He's. Had a good look right up there. I'm not ashamed, absolutely. Right, So what else have you got on Cat? That's it for Cat, to be honest. I know she's got a lot of chapters, but again I feel that she's she's very well portrayed from what I've seen in the show. Yeah, I didn't I didn't learn a huge amount. Just like I said, with Ned, there was a bit more in depth thought processes and inner monologues. No dreams, no Cat, No I think that. Yeah it is, it's just a much more. It's the same story with more layers. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, definitely. But love Cat is a POV character and it's a way. It was an interesting choice that George decided not to give Rob a POV and we only see him through Cat's eyes, yeah, or Brand's eyes earlier on before they leave winter Fell. It was really interesting because he all the other Start children are povs except Rob, and George really wanted us to see this boy through the eyes of his mother, which I thought was a very interesting choice. Do we have any other thoughts on Cat? All right, let's move on to John. So what did you feel about John's portrayal in the book? How can I word John? He's much younger, He's much younger, However, he's deeper. Yes, that's probably the best way to describe it. You totally get the loving brother vibe in both Yes, and you also totally get the I think Kat was worse to him in the book than she was in the show. You got the vibe that she didn't like him. But in the book she was she was fucking mean. She really was. Actually she was very harsh. Yeah, when he came to say goodbye Bran, she was a fucking bitch. She was, and she was she was horrible in the show. So because you getting her thoughts as well as what she's saying. Yeah, it's one thing to say something mean in the heat of the moment and strong emotions are taken over. But what she thinks about. I think think it's on the book because he's only what was he fourteen at this point? A fourteen year old kid treating him like that is just it's quite despicable. She's a mother of five, yeah, and it has a son his age and to treat. Him that way. We boy, hasn't he got a mum? Yeah, just as a mumma's thought you fucking bed how rude? I absolutely agree with that. It's the it's my my sticking point with Cat that almost made me not like her. What it does, though, is makes you really connect with John as a character and get behind him because us scott'sill love an underdog, don't. Definitely, so from the get go you're rooting for John. Yes, definitely, I think you're right. I think that is the way Catlin treats them has got a lot to do with how quickly you get behind them. Yeah, for that reason. Yeah. So for me with John in the book, what I really wanted to highlight in this episode was my difference between the show and the book with a particular scene that I thought was absolutely shit. Yes, yes, you mentioned it in the first half. So let's now you've got your your book notes in front of you. Tell us why you didn't like this scene, Emma. So the scene in the show, you can only do what you can do on screen for a viewer. The way George has written this scene, you picture everything in your mind and you feel everything, and you're there at every step of John's thought process in the In the you wouldn't I don't know if you can call it a fight. Yeah, there's one one lunge and a paragraph of thoughts go with it. There's also I think I feel like I have to check it, but I'm going to say it anyway because I don't think it happened in the show, And it's to do with a It's a ray. He's a raven, isn't he. He's not a crow? Is he a crow, the bird the old so the old bears Raven is shouting corn, corn, corn, while John is having this altercation with this dead guy, and Ghost is also involved in that. I'm going to get to the bird changes what he says. The bird tells John what to do. The bird shouts burn, burn burn. So in the show, I'm pretty sure there at no point it's mentioned that the bird told John what to do. John's just supposed to have had this epiphany during this crazy altercation to set on fire, whereas that's that's not what happened. The bird told him what to do, so just saying that's what happened, right, but also the point of why it was better was, I'll read it. John had no time to be afraid. He threw himself forward, shouting, bringing down the long sword with all his weight behind it, burning mind He's only fourteen, stale shared through sleeve and skin and bone. Yet the sound was somehow wrong. The smell that engulfed him was so queer and cold he almost gagged. He saw arm in hand on the floor, black fingers wriggling in a pool of moonlight. Ghost wrenched free of the other hand and crept away. Red tongue lolling from his mouth. The hooded man lifted his pale moon face and John slashed at it without hesitation. The sword led the intruder open to the bone, taking off half his nose and opening a gash cheek to cheek under those eyes, eyes, eyes like blue burning stars. John knew that face. Author, author, Author, He thought, reeling back, God, he's dead, He's dead. I saw him dead. He felt something scrabble at his ankle. Black fingers clawed at his calf. The arm was crawling up his leg, oh ripping at woolen flesh. Shouting with revulsion, John pried the fingers off his leg with the point of his sword and flipped the thing away. It lay writhing, fingers opening and closing. John tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the old bear's fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. Burn the raven cord, burn burn burn. You don't get that in that scene when you watch it, No, you don't. Oh God, When I read that, I was like, oh, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. You could imagine being fourteen and like the wolf is attacking, things are on fire, the Raven's shouting its head off this dead guy. You're like, oh my god, it's the dead guy. Holy shit? Is the fucking dead guy arms like it's crapping up your leg? Oh not. Everything about it is terrifying. So thoughts. First of all, do you think George is an evil Dead fan? Definitely evil Dead vibes going on there. I love it, totally, got love some Bruce Campbell anyway, love that, getting love those evil Dead vibes. The other thought that's going through my head as while you were saying burn burn burn, the raven cried, I'm thinking, is it the raven or is it blood Draven? See, that's that's the thought that Yeah, blood Draven. It was shouting corn before that, Yeah. It was. Yeah, blood Draven is a he's a green Seer, which means he's a work, right, he's hell because green sars are the most powerful works. All this thing I ever said, his corn really, isn't it? Yeah? Think you there's the corn King. But I think that's much later on in the books, in a later book. But there's there's something there. The raven does say one or two things that are out of the norm, but mostly just does say corn. There's other things that make a make a lot of theorists believe that the blood raven is communicating through the raven are spying through the raven. He is a wark, after all, and so therefore he can absolutely what's the word communicate, Yeah, but there's a word for it, skin change. There we go. You could actually he could definitely skin change Ravens. In fact, ravens were his thing. He's got a raven birthmark, raven shaped birthmark on his face. Ravens are definitely blood ravens thing. You see where I'm going with that? So maybe maybe maybe deeper lower, deeper love it. So yeah, carry on, what were you saying? No, that that's me for John. I'd like to know what you thought of John. I like, like you say, it's that underdog thing from the get go. I was rooting for this kid. He's he's feels so rejected in his own home. His father, well the only father he knows, clearly loves him and he has a great relationship with him, and he's some of his siblings, most of his siblings are one but he he's you just can't wait to get out of there. We can find some sort of destiny for himself, something, something above it all. All his siblings are destined for greatness. His brother's going to be Lord of winter Fell, his sister is going to marry a prince. Bran and Aria you know the. Okay says that doesn't He says, my sisters are going to marry and have the ladies of their own castles. And bran and Ricconnell by Bannerman, Yeah, Rob will b Lord of winter Fell. And that's his reasoning to his uncle Benjin, Yeah, for gone, and they're sad. His uncle Benjin says, you've never known a woman, yeah, and John's like, I've he's going father your own bastards, like I'll never father a bastard. Yeah, yeah, exactly now I know. On the show he says this later on to Sam and explains why he will never you know, why still a virgin, basically because he couldn't do it because they thought of father a bastard. Did that happen in the book? I can't remember now. I can't remember. I feel like the only time I remember it was the conversation with Uncle Benjin. Yeah, me too, So I feel like that's something they switched up a little bit. They've made it a more when where he's connecting with his friends opposed to something he's saying very early on, because Uncle Benja must have been John's first chapter. Yeah, so yeah interesting right, Okay, so what notes have I got here on John? So? Yeah, talking about his feelings of isolation. I love how Actually one of the parts that I really loved the book that I don't think came across from the show very well was his introspection. He's thinking about the wall that the Night's watch. He's becomes disillusioned. He thought it was going to be this great band of you know, noble warriors. And it's actually fallen a bits and they're all a band. Of thieves and rapists. Yeah, and little boys that are canny fight. Yeah yeah, And it's not what he thought it was. And he it's when it's pointed out to him that you learned to fight having a what do you call it, a master at arms? Yeah, you had a master at arms. These boys here learned to fight because they had to, because they were fighting in the street. Yeah, you need to be their friend and teach them not fight with the fight against them. Yeah, which is how we got the title Lord's Throw yeacause he was lording over them with his knowledge. And I'm better than you. I'm trained, and i can kick all your assays because i want to be a ranger, so I'm going to batter everybody so i can prove that I'm the toughest one here. I would say seeing the book, Sir amaswer Thorn, right, he is an absolute nob right, But seeing the show, I kind of like him. Although he's a horrid cunt, I still kind of like him because he gives that sort of making you learn a lesson the hard way, like skill of hard knocks. Yes, definitely, he is an absolute arsehole. Yeah. I think for the point for me like that I started to think you're a prick was when he called him a traitor's bastard. Yeah, and it was just mean. There was no school of hard knocks there. He was just being a cunt. So but before that, yes, and. When you think of what he's preparing these boys for though, I think that's the bit in the show that I think's done well. Yes, yeah, yeah, I do think because he. Needs them to be they're the first line of defense against the most fucking terrifying thing. I'm not even sure if he's one of these people that really believes in the White Walkers, but certainly the Wildlings are a threat, and we know that they're massing an army or you know, there's whispers, there's rumors, there's definitely shit going on north of the Wall that's making What do. We know about him? Did he go to the Wall as a wee boy that was a little dick or did was this something that happened to him later in life? Do we have any backstory on Thorn? Yes, I do. Actually there's not much, but he was a Targerian loyalist and after the sack of kings Landing he was sent to the ball along with others. What I found out, what I did find really interesting was Randal Tarley, Sam's dad, and Mace Tyrrell, who he is. They were both Targerian loyalists as well, and they got to retain their lands and titles, et cetera. And I think the reason being is that they they they won their battles against them. Okay, so there's the Battle of Ashford that Randal Tarley totally just annihilated them, but Mace Tyrell showed up at the end took control because he's the Lord paramount, he's you know, in rank, he's above and he took credit for it. Right, everybody knows that Randal Tarley really won that battle, and then he led this siege of storms End, which was also successful. So yeah, Randall Charley and Mace Tyrrell's siege storms End with Stanis Bathian inside for the better part of a year, and the stage was only lifted when ned Stark showed up after the sack of King's Landing in the Battle of the Drydent and relieved Stanis and went had the wars over and we won and you lost, so back down. And but they were allowed to retain their lands and titles, whereas lesser lords like Alice or Thorn were just sent off to the wall. So he was a lord. No, he's a knight right now, I'm thinking, so, yeah, I shouldn't have said lesser lord. He was. He was a knight that fought for the Targarian side. But it doesn't actually say anywhere in the wiki which house he was corrected to or what for. He might have been a hedge knight like Dunk you know, he but it doesn't say what house he was connected to, so who knows. But yeah, look, I think it's only the important people that can buy their way out of a trip to the wall. Perhaps, well what a shock, I think. After all that time, though, maybe the realm just wanted to be say, and it's one thing to chuck a lonely night up to the wall, but to tear down a you know, an important house. Yeah, I suppose there's an element of making an example. Yes, that too, And who knows what naughty things they did during the sack of King's landing, that's true. Yeah, there may have been reasons for it, because he is a bit of a dick a bit, so that would answer to your question. So did you have any other notes on John? No, my John notes are dan dusted, So. Other than the winter pill Crypts thing, I had one other thing that I just really wanted to highlight because I thought it was lovely. So I mentioned it in the first part when we were talking about John and Sam taking the oaths, and it was the I said it was a grove of nine were woods. Yeah, so yeah, I found the passage it's so beautifully described as lovely. The sun was sinking below the trees. When they reached their destination, a small clearing in the deep of the wood, where nine were woods grew in a rough circle. John drew in a breath, and he saw sam Tarley stay in. Even in the wolf's wood, you never found more than two or three of the white trees growing together. A grove of nine was unheard of. The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, blood red on top black crop. Beneath the wide, smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward. The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and harder ruby. Boh and Marsh commanded them to leave their horses outside the circle. This is a sacred place. We will not defile it. When they entered the grove, Samuel Charley turned slowly, looking at each face in turn. No two were quite alike. They're watching us, he whispered. The old gods love that, love that just the descriptive writing for George brilliant. You can, you absolutely can. And God, I just wish Dan and Day felt the same thing when they read that passage. Oh dear, they're just like. A one where would will be enough? Well? I suppose for not of those of us that didn't know any better at the time, one Wherewood was enough but disappointing. On reflection, What other things did I have to say about John? I think I had one or two other notes. Yeah. The one thing that was I felt was that was missing in the show was his friendship with Donald Noy. Donald Noy was like like they were buddies and he's not even in the show, And it's just like, I think that dynamic that John had other other friendships other than Sam. Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's Pipp and Gren as well. And again in the book, the one on one friendships come across a lot better, whereas in the show it felt like there was Sam was his best day, and then there was the other three. Yeah, it gave Samuel, Gamgy and like Pipping and Marry vibes. Yeah, it was, yeah, exactly, And it just wasn't like that John had like he had different relationships going on all over the place, and Donald Noy is just such a cool character that it's just absolutely ship that he was missed out. Wasteful, absolutely so. Donald Noy, if you don't know, remember, was the Smith and he actually came from storm's end. He was the one that made the war Robert Brathyens warhammer, the one that killed Regar And I just think that's such a cool piece of lower slash history that it's just again, just another thing that's just missing. But I can kind of see why it was cut as well, because other than that one facts, it doesn't serve the narrative. Yeah, but. It could have been one conversation. It's at least interesting. Yeah, exactly a couple of lines. It didn't take me long to say it, does it? So he could have told that wee story quickly. So yeah, but yeah, I suppose like they have to weigh up does it serve the narrative because we're talking putting a thirty five hour book into ten hours of TV, So I suppose something's got. To give a Yeah, Well can't I'll be Peter Jackson. No, And even he missed some bits. Definitely did a fab job though, Right, So, I don't think I've got anything else to say about John. Who would you like to talk about next? Oh? Okay, let's do so answer first. Cool, Well, she's not in the show as much as she is in the book. No, she's not in the book. As much as she is in the show, and that's that's fine. No, because we get we get Sophie in every episode, Yeah, whereas she my chapters in the book something like that. Yeah, I think there's a lot more to her in the book though. Yeah. Oh, she's definitely got a lot more layers. And she's so young. Bless her. But one of the one of the bits I really liked that you didn't really get in the show that you got in the book was a bit of foreshadowing about pain. Oh yeah, so the part I like the bit of taken from the book is Sansa could not take her eyes off the third man. He seemed to feel the weight of her gaze. Slowly he turned his head, Lady grilled. A terror as overwhelming as anything Sansa Stark had ever felt, filled her suddenly, and as we know, he's the guy that chopped her dad's head off. Yeah, so, ladies totally channeling with Sansor like this is this guy is very bad? Yeah, yeah, it's I often wonder about that, like the war gang power that the Stark children have, does it come with a kind of sixth sense as well? Like is that is there other elements to it other than just skin change in we know about green dreams and things like that, but maybe you know a little bit of a little bit of foresight as well might be a thing possibly, But it makes that way with that part of it, Yeah, because it's like green saying on a very small scale, isn't it. Yeah, So yeah, I think that might be one of the things. One of the things George is referring to when he says that all the Star Children are works. Yeah, we don't see enough of it with san Slash didn't get enough time with her wolf, but little things like that. Yeah, I think also for her character in the book, for me, it was a big change to read how young she was, how really really young she was, and her relationship with her sister. It was hilarious in the book. I mean it was it was funny in the show, but it was hilarious in the book part that I genuinely did really laugh out loud. They were so vickery, it was so funny. And there's these whole bits in her chapters where she's just going, why is my sister like this? She can't possibly be my sister, And she just tears it up for ours paper Yeah, slags off every single bit of her sister, and it's it's so it's so sisters, isn't it? Like she does love her, But at the same time, she's like, oh my god, how is she related to me? I don't get it? Why is she such an arsehole? Why is she ruined my life? Definitely, and she does feel like that is like the area is just ruined everything. Yeah. Absolutely, they're so different. They're so chalking cheese. There's there's a part as well that's not in the show that I'd picked up on, and that Joff and Sansa were actually drinking that day that Joff gets So there's an element of being really young and sort of wanting to show off to this young man that she's going to be married off to who he's also a kid. Really, but she's never drank, So she's sitting there getting pissed at watch what. She's twelve and she's had a couple of supervised glasses of wine. Yeah, and that's like smashed adult. I am the Prince. I could do what I want. You couldn't have as much wine as you want me, lady. Oh dear, well, have all been there? Maybe not at twelve. Yeah, well. Here we are. Mine had to come get me in her mind. Out takes please. But yeah, they were about drunk that day, and it just adds more fuel to the fire, isn't I it was. There was a lot of emotion going around and a little bit off. It was alcohol fuel too. Yeah. She also had her little buddy with her more in the book than she did in the show. I didn't realize that what she called jene Pool Jene Pool was with her everywhere, and you didn't really see so much of that and show you did in winter Fell, but there was a lot more of it in the book. So for me that was really interesting to see. Another difference, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, her in jam Pool relationship is that there's a lot more of her. There's a lot more that that girl is present throughout the entire series actually really Yeah, every few chapters we hear about Jane Pool. Yeah, we certainly have more to say on that as we dissect the other books. But yeah, she's definitely a strong presence. If not but not you know, never a p o V. Never a central central to any. And they have a more sisterly relationship than Sansa Andaria. It's her total best. Yeah, definitely. Do you have any other thoughts on No. That's that's all my my senses. So yeah, I've just got Like in the book, it's sort of like she's got this life through a naive lens, but it's gradually starts to crack, right, But in the show, the kind of just I don't think her bubble burst quite as soon in season one, you know what I mean. It's not portrayed because it's internalized. It's an inner monologue again, so we don't see things really start to change with Sansa. And she goes to push joff off of the Yeah, the parapet. Yeah, absolutely, But she's just it's it's like a sudden thing. The woman. She's like, I'll do anything you want. In the next minute, she tried to push him off a balcony, whereas it's much more gradual. In the book, she goes back and forward quite a lot. I actually have a quote here that I think is it's quite relevant to this. So Geoffrey was the king now. She thought her gallant prince would never hurt her father, no matter what he might have done. If she went him and pleaded for mercy. She was certain he'd listen. He had to listen. He loved her. Even the Queen said so, geoff would need to punish father. The Lord would expect it, but perhaps he could send him back to Winterfell, or excel it, but one of the free cities across the new to say. It would only have to be for a few years, and then she and Geoffrey would be married. Once she was queen, she could persuade Josh to bring her father back and grant him a pardon. Only if Mother or Rob did something trees in us called the banners, or refused to swear feety or anything, it could all go wrong. Her Geoffrey was good and kind. She knew it in her heart that a king had to be stirring with rebels. She had to make them understand. She had to I I'll write the letters since I told them. Oh boy, sir, I know girl. Yeah, And you don't get that in the show. In the show, you just get oh right, okay, yeah, yeah, all right then right, But that all that rationale that's going on inside her head. She's utterly convinced. She's just such a sad, little naive girl. I feel so sorry for her when I read that paragraph. Yeah, but you would win you're twelve. Yeah, that's what you thought you would. I was like, he loved her. Oh, he wouldn't do that to her. No, the princess and books wouldn't do that to you. Answer, he's not that. The bad guys don't come wearing signs, sweetheart. No, and we don't know that when we're twelve girls. So yeah, her rationalizations way reduced in the show. It's just and I think our interactions with the hound as well are a bit softened. I think she's way more scared of him in the book than what comes across in the show as well. But he's a bit scary dude. Yeah, Christian does he call her little bird in the book like he does in the show? Oh, I don't know. I didn't watch out for that. I can't remember. I'm going to search of ice and fire that. So yeah, after a found the code, here is says some septor trained you. Well, you're like one of those birds from the summer. Else, aren't you a pretty little talking bird repeating all the pretty little words they taught you to recite? That's some kind Sansa could feel her heart fluttering in her chest. You're frightening me. I want to go. Now there's others as well, So, yeah, he does make the little bird reference. There's another one. Actually, the hound was right. She thought, I'm only a little bird repeating the words they taught me. And you know what, I'm just wondering if the little bird things, maybe some foreshadow and some fruits for some future warging from Sansa. She doesn't have her wolf anymore, but that does I mean, she can't connect with another animal, So that could be cool. That would be cool. Well, let's hope. Let's hope, because Sansa in the books is about to make a comeback in a big way. At least that's what I'm feeling was happening towards the end. Who knows what George is actually written. It's a waiting game, it is is indeed. So are we done with Sansa? Yeah? Yeah, I think I am too. So how about Aria? What have you got for Aria? I thought she was pretty much the same in the book as she is in the show. I don't think her story deviates much at all. I think the only bit I felt was different was when she is down with the dragon skulls and overhears the conversation. Yes, with Baris, it was much scarier in the book for her because you have that internal monologue, yeah, like describing how dark it is and how terrifying she. Is really scared down there, and it's like she is so dark, and the descriptive language absolutely brilliant. As much as that scene is that scene, that chapter, the descriptive write in there is absolutely stunning. One of the things that I actually did was WeDo the conversation without it all, so we just get the conversation right, because I feel like the steering away from digressing away from Aria slightly. The varison a leirios conversation seems as good a place as any to talk about. It's quite interesting without Aria is in our monologue, So found one bastard one said the rest will come soon a day, two days, a fortnight. And when he learns the truth, what will he do? The second voice asked, in the liquid accents of the Free Cities, the gods alone. No, the first voice said, the fools tried to kill his son, and what's worse, they made a mummer's farce of it. He's not a man to put that aside. I warn you the wolf and the lion will soon be each other's throats, whether we will it or not. Too soon, too soon. The voice with the accent complained, what good is war now? We're not ready? Delay as well, bid me to stop time. Do you take me for a wizard? The other chuckled, No, less, What would you have me do, asked the torch bearer. If one hand can die, why not a second, replied the man with the accent and the forked yellow beard. You have danced to dance before my friend. Before is not now, and this hand is not the other. The scarred man said, perhaps so. The forked beard replied, Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The cow will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages. If he does not bestir himself soon, it may be too late. The stout man in the steel cap said, this is no longer a game for two players, if ever it was. Stanisbarathian and Lysaron have fled beyond the reach, and the whispers say that they are gathering swords around them. The Night of Flowers, writes High Garden, urging his lord father to send us sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renley and Sir Loris intend that Robert should bed her, wed her and make her a new queen. Little Finger the God only knows what game little Finger is playing. Yet Lord Starks, the one who troubles my sleep, he has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth. And now his wife has adducted Terry and Lanister thanks to little Fingers meddling. Lord Taiwan will take that for an outrage, and Jamie has a queer affection for the imp. If the Lanisters move north, that will bring the Tullies in as well. Delay, you say, make haste, I reply, Even if the finest of jugglers cannot keep a hundred balls in the air forever. You are more than a juggler, old friend, you're a true sorcerer. All I ask is that you work your magic a while longer. What I can do, I will. The one with the torch said softly, I must have gold and another fifty birds. So many ones you need are hard to find, so young to know their letters. Perhaps older not die so easy. No, the younger are safer, treat them grankly if they kept their tongues. The risk so dark. They're just playing. Yes, they are an aria. I can hear all of this, and she does go and try and relay what she's heard, but it's so jumbled. Yeah, she doesn't really fully understand. It, doesn't know who they are. There's an accent going She's only little. She's terrified that she's in the dark. There's monsters. Yeah, she actually calls them monsters monsters, but she does realize that they're just the dragon skills and they're Yeah, they can't hurt her, they're not alive. Do you have anything more to say about their conversation that they have. Oh, it's so oh, it's so laced with subtexts. Absolutely, there's just so much going on there. What loads to say about that conversation. We could talk about that conversation for the whole podcast, which I absolutely could. So you know, they're playing chess. They've got a plan. It's clearly war but on their schedule. The last section, though, is quite terrifying. He's talking about we all know about varises, little birds, and we know in the end that they were children and like this thing their tongues are cut out so that they can't spill it and their what actually is is they can't read or write. But he teaches them this secret code that only he understands, so they can really information to him and that no one else could understand that. Yeah, they can't be interrogated. But he asks for another fifty fifty. Can you imagine, imagine how many of these little kids that are you know, all over west or some of them must be grown up. Yeah, you know, they's been at this for decades. He's served three kings now Paris, it's three kings by the time, Is that Geoffrey, I think, yeah, But yeah, he's he's been at this for a long time. And over the years he's buy networks grown and grown and grown fifty and God, that's going to come back to bite him in the ass. Layer. One would hope, One would hope watch Faris Cities little birds. But yeah, it's definitely it's it's a loaded conversation. And I mean, I and many other people believe that this is them planning the next Blackfire rebellion. I think that would be number six six black Fire rebellion. Yeah, first one is before duncan egg. Second one is during Dunk and Egg. Third one set just after the fourth is when the egg is like a way an adult. And then the fifth is the War of the Nine Penny Kings, which is like forty years before Robert's rebellion. This is the one where Barrison sell me slew Melee's Blackfire, who was the last Blackfire of the male line, right, and that that line is referenced later of the male line. So but we'll get to that in later books. So yeah, let's save that for later books when it becomes relevant. But let's watch watch. But I'm definitely because I didn't figure this out. It was like going It was later in the books that you start to piece together things from before that make about this whole Blackfire stuff. So this is like my first full reread. I mean, I've reread a chapter here and there, and you know, I've watched some million William videos since my first proper read through, but this one, this is like the first time you going back with all these theories clearing my head and I want to look out for them now, and that is definitely one of them. I think it's quite exciting and it's I think it's very clear in the text as well that that's where this is going. But there's still so many mysteries are about it too. So cool, it's a cool story. It's cool, cool subplot, call it so other area thoughts, what have you got? It's actually not in my notes. It's just I think that there was more Sirio Farrell depth in the book. I think his character was really cool in the show. I think the actor that played them was awesome. Oh that is exactly how I picture done. Yeah, but I really enjoyed those those bits of the book. The danceing. Yeah, there's a lot more. There's a lot more philosophy in their lessons. He's trying to make her think smart as well, not just fight good. Yeah, really really cool. I have a little quote one it's not actually Cyrio Farrell, it's Aria thinking of him. This is just after she's left the room with Cyrio Farrell and men and trad. Her inner monologue reads all that Cyrio Farrell had taught her went racing through her head. Swift as a deer, quite as a shadow, fear cut steeper than swords, quick as a snake, came is still water, fear cut steeper than swords, strong as a bear, fierce as a wolverine, fear cut steeper than swords, A man who fears losing has already lost. Fear cut steeper than swords, fear cut steeper than swords, fear cut steeper than swords. That's her running through the halls of the Red Cape, scrambling, not knowing what to do. I like that one. Yeah, it shows the impact that he's had on her. Yeah, definitely. It's the first thing that she's been allowed to do with instruction that she genuinely enjoys for the first time in her life. She hates sewing, she hates all of those girly things, and this thing she's been allowed to do that she loves. Yees, she values every minute that she gets to do it. She works so hard chasing cats and standing on one foot. Yeah, she's it's Those are great, great chapters and great scenes. As you said, the guy that played them in the show was absolutely brilliant. I think in the in the book, it's like, I think we're definitely left with that feeling that Cirio is dead. You know, there's no way he made it. We hear Harry hears some loud, scary noises as she's she's getting away and thinking the book it's in the In the TV show, you were sort of like, oh, you can get to that. It's just one dude, he can totally get that. And there was always a part of you that was hoping he was going to reappear. Yeah, and that would have been great. I think there are some book readers as well that still hold out hope. I know it's it's definitely one of the theories out there. I don't know how popular it is, but it's definitely a theory that has circulated that Cirio Frell is still alive or Cirio Forrell is jacking a car. Yeah, there's theories about everything. Everybody's got theories. Everybody wants their favorite character to survive. It's Game of Thrones. You're watching the wrong show. Yeah, Mazy's brilliant. Mazie has an absolutely strong, really strong performance, and I think, like you said, I think the show just got her part spot on. Really they really did. There's no no tweaking necessary. It was a brilliantly written part. It was perfect as it was. It was. Oh yeah, so a couple of like throwaway lines I've just found in my notes here about Aria. Actually, she's talking about the Winterfel Crips, as we already have, so I've got She says, old Nan had told her that there were spiders down there and rats as big as dogs. Rob smiled when she said that there are worse things than spiders and rats. He whispered, this is where the dead walk. And she's thinking about this while she's escaping, going back down through the tunnels and the past, the scary monsters and stuff like that. She's thinking about the crypts and Winterfeil tried to tell herself the crypts Winterfel Crips are way scarier than here. But she's having this memory this time where they've all went down there, and I can't remember whether it's I think it's yeah, Robed taking her down there, and John's hiding all covered in white flower and jumps out on our and the totally they scare the craft out of our and everything. So then she's like, the memory made Arie a smile, and after that the darkness held no more terrors for her. The stable boy was dead. She'd killed him, and if he jumped out her, she'd kill him again. She was going home. Everything would be better when she was home again, safe behind winter Fell's gray granite walls. I love that. If he jumps out, I'll kill him again. Oh she's so feisty. I love her so much. Yeah, she's a great character. Right, So let's move on to Bran Cool. Well, we do have a bit of Bran, don't we. Yeah, in the beginning, and then there's really not much of him at all after after he's sort of woken up. I don't I don't remember there being There was more kings Land and stuff after that, as far as I can remember from what I read. There's a couple of bits I like from his dream, the Falling Dreamers. Yea, his chat with the crow is hilarious at times. So there's a whole Are you really a crow? Brand asked, Are you really falling? The crow asked back, it's just a dream, Brand said, so good. And another one I mean not funny, but I mean. The dream lasts the whole chapter. Yeah, it's hard to quote from this. One's a good goose bumpy one. This is now, you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live why? Brand said, not understanding falling falling because winter is coming. So great, so cool. Yeah, and Brand's so important. You get from that point and Brand three, Oh shit, Brand's really important. Brand is important. Brand is very, very very important. He is and you're you're right. That is the moment you realize it, and you're you're you're believing this. It's like he's he's going to fly, he's going, he's going to You're willing him to recover fully from his injuries. Then when you find out that he isn't going to physically recover, you start to think, well, something's coming. Though there's for the foreshadowings there, something's definitely coming. It takes some time to play out, though Brand's story is a slow burners. But you get more of a sense that he's really important in the book What have you Got for Bran? It's actually a really long one. I don't know if I should read it all. But my favorite part is it's not with Bran. It's well, it's mister Lewin and Osha telling him about the the children of the Forest and stuff like that. Really cool. I'll wing it. I'll just see what bits jump out at me, or maybe I'll read the whole thing. Who knows we'll just see what happens. They were people, dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and in crannogs, in secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together with werewoods, bows, and flying snares. Their gods were the gods of the forests, streaming stone, the old gods, whose names are secret. Their wise men were called green sears, and carved strange faces into the werewoods to keep watching the woods. Hang on a second, and he makes this bigger, because like it's coming in aute to focus. Zoom, that's what I zoom. How long the children raned here, or where they came from, no man can know. But some twelve thousand years ago the first men peered from the east, crossing the broken arm of Dawn. Before it was broken. They came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses. No horse had ever been seen on this side of the narrow Sea. No doubt the children would astrightened by the horses, as the first men were by the faces and the trees. As the first Men carved out hold fast and farms, they cut down the faces and gave them to the fire. Horror struck, the children went to war. The old songs say that the green Seers used dark magic to make the siege rise and sweep away the land, shattering the arm, but it was too late to close the door. The wars went on until the earth ran red with the blood of men and the children both, but more children than men, for men were bigger and stronger, and wood and stone and obsidian make a poor match for bronze. Finally, the wives of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the green Seers and the wood dance stirs amidst the warewood groves of a small island in the Great Lake called the Godsaye. There they forged the pact. The First Men were giving the coastlands, the high plains, and the bright meadows, and the mountains and the bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's and no more where. Woods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm, so the gods might bear witness to the signing. Every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward the Sacred Order of Green Men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces. The Pact began four thousand years of friendship between men and children. In time, the first men even put aside the gods they had brought with them and took up the worship of the secret gods of the wood. The signing of the Pact ended the donage and began the Age of Heroes. Awesome, it's so cool. But you know what, I think the reason I wanted to read it is because, see, when you're actually reading the book, this chapter is so hard to take in because it comes right after the axe falls on the sword falls on, right, Okay, so you've got the end areas chapter where Ned's dead, and then it's like off to winter Fell for. Yes, but for a lower lesson with mister Lewin, and you're just like, but what's happening in King's landing? And it's so hard to take this in when your brain's and another like, I need to know what's going on, And even when you've read it for me anyway, I was like, it didn't matter that I've already read it and I know what's going on. It's still like, this is so hard to concentrate on and it's brilliant, but. I think because we've done so much looking into this, I didn't get that from it. I wasn't. I was just like, Oh, cool, a bit that's not on the show. Awesome, Yes that too. They do talk about it as much, but I don't feel I feel like we get little snippets off that whole speech. Yeah, that's way cooler to just for it to. Be delivered like a big monologue like that. It's fun tastic because a lot of the lower we get throughout it is scattered. It's a line here or a thought there, and and yeah, it's nice to just see it all laid out like that, and this is the history. This is what I or this is what the people believe. Maybe it's not as clear cut as that. Something that George's is quite good at doing is writing an ambiguous history. Well for me, because history is ambiguous. Looking at the differences between the show and the book, well, George wrote it. George wrote the book. So it's it's cool for me to after two watches of the show to read that for the first time. Yeah, and be like Oh, so this is the original text. This is this is. The this is where it all came from. Yeah, this I like this. This is cool. That was cool, But this is where it came from. Yeah, and this makes me happy. Yes, that's where I was with those snippets of information that we just didn't get, no show. We didn't at all. There's a wee bit of extra and the nd there just a wee bit further into the history. So much in this one chapter. This is such a loaded chapter. So long as the kingdoms of the First Men held sway, the pact endured all through the Age of Heroes and the Long Night and the birth of the Seven Kingdoms. Yet finally there came a time, many centuries later when other people's crossed across the Narrow Sea. The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair haired warriors that came with steel and fire and the seven pointed star of the New Gods painted on their chests. Their wars lasted hundreds of years, but in the end, six southern kingdoms all fell before them. Only here were the king in the north through back every army that tried to cross the neck. Did the rule of the First Men endure? The andals, burnt out the where we grows, hacked down the faces and slaughter the children where they found them everywhere, proclaimed triumph of the Seven over the old gods, so the children fled north. It has a lot of Celtic mythology and druid. Oh absolutely, these ales are one hundred percent the the the Saxons and the Angles of the Dark Ages and the Danes, et cetera coming over and setting up and in England and pushing back the Britons and so yeah, this this is George Joy directly for British history here, and it's really cool. But the first part is just dripping in magic and lore. It's like the second part is more like a history lesson and I think that comes from the fact that the Handles kept records, whereas the previous stuff is past generational story. Who kept records. Yeah, and then you have the whole fantasy element of it, which I think he's drawn from Irish mythology. That's that's where I think he's taken a lot of that from. Yeah, Yeah, for sure, there's there's there's so much of it going on there. There's Irish mythology. There's like the Angles and the Saxons, like we're talking about there, there was a Long Night in the Dark Ages. It was a year without sun, which is just so cool. When I was researching this stuff because I was trying to that. Was last summer in Scotland. The second I put my hot about. That's that that that was the Long Night. But yeah, there it draws from King Arthur and things like so we've got fire and blood. For example, I've written from the perspective of Archmaister Guildane and in the Dark Age is one of the only texts we have from that time is from a monk. I think it is named Guildess. Oh there you are. Yeah, yeah, George heavily drew from that period of history within Britain, and then as well, I think that the Ironborn are very Viking. E. Yeah. They definitely are reaping and raping and raiding, raping and pillaging. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, there's some really fantastic world building going on there. And again you just don't get that on the show. Nobody says, yeah, do you know what's annoying? Right, It's that we can listen in this really long winded story about how Peter Bailish challenged ned Stark's brother Juel for Catlin's hand. And this really awkward sex scene that's going on in the background with two working girls, and it's just it's like they've got time for that, but they don't have time for us to sit down and listen to history and lower being laid out like that. Yep, And there's, like we discussed earlier, there's little characters that you could have got some really cool info from. Yeah, however, we watched two girls fisting. Great, thanks for that, guys. I will never watch Game of throw in season one with any of my children, even when they're forty. Thank you. No, not happening. No, can't do it. Can't make me no, which is a shame because I think your children would actually really enjoy it. Absolutely, just just just go watch it. Not with me, It's not with me. Yeah, your kids are cool, they all like the cool stuff. But that's just awkward. Even Oh, do anyone need to refill cup of tea? Did you not say your nanna used to do that? You're just alone there with the sex scene, thinking ship, when is she coming back? It's over. I don't want to look, but I can't her eyes away now and I. Don't when she when she comes through, I don't want to see me looking. At I don't know where to look. Do I look at that or do I cover my eyes? Do I sit like I'm not bothered? It's just you don't need that in your life. Really, No, you don't. Oh so true? But yeah, great stuff there in a brand chapter. I mean, I can't not none other really stand out to me and memory. I'm not saying the brand's chapter there was anything wrong with them, but they. Know the only other thing and a brand chapter was But again it's more low. It's Old Nan. Oh yeah, Old Nan. Of course that's cool stuff. And that was in brand one. And she's like, I'm about if you got. Your brand, if you got your Old Nan clips quotes? Should I say. I've not because for some reason I've obviously left them open somewhere in my forty six tabs and have no idea where that is. Well. To be fair, I think that the TV show did Old Nan justice absolutely. So refer to part one where we have the audio clip of old Man telling her, yes, telling the story, because I don't suppose that the book reading is going to be any different. It's verbatim, it is absolutely, so, yeah, it's better hearing the actress that portrays Old Nan deliverate. And there's some. Ram and joaddie in there as well that really hits it. It's just yeah, yeah, actually that's one of the bits in the show that was better than in the book. And so yeah, definitely you'd much rather hear the actress that plays Old Dan do it than me or Emma. So yeah, it's in part one. I know your friends, Yes exactly. She's such a great character, so over the top, but in the best way. Do you have any other brand? No, I don't bear with me. I don't think I do either. Yeah, I think that concludes our brand section. Let's move on to Tyrian. He for me was quite the same, if I'm honest blunt. However, there's a there's a kind side. He's hilarious. Yes, a lot of his stuff I thought was verbatim. So the difference for me, Carry. Is such a well written character in the. First great actor. Yeah, a great actor and a well written character. You just don't need to change anything. There were bits that were missed out, and we're going to come to that. But for me particularly, we don't really get to see how fascinated Tyrian is with the dragons. No, that's not clear. No, right, So I do have this section that I really like from the book. So, and the opening line is Tyrian had a morbid fascination with the dragons. So when he had first come to kings Landing for his sister's wedding to Robert Barrathian, he had made it a point to seek out the dragon skulls that had hung on the walls of the Turgerian's throne room. King Robert had replaced them with banners and tapestries, but Tyrian had persisted until he found the skulls in the dank cellar where they had been stored. I mean, that is just like such a fucking insult, isn't it. He had expected to find them impressive, perhaps even frightening. He had not thought to find them beautiful. Yet they were as black as onyx polished smooth, so the bones seemed to shimmer in the light of his torch. They liked the fire, he sensed. So he's sensing something of them, which is and he finds them beautiful, which is cool. So he'd thrust the torch into the mouth of one of the larger skulls and made the shadows leap and dance on the wall behind him. The teeth were long, curving knives of black diamond. The flame of the torch was nothing to them. They had bathed in the heat of far greater fires. When he moved away, Terrian could have sworn that the Great Beast's empty eye sockets had watched him go It's so cool. Actually, given be goosebumps. That is so cool. I'm sorry, but I just like I think that just gets way more weight to the Tyrian's a Targearian theory. It really does. I mean, I'm not going to get any of the theory here because like I don't know it well enough to be fair. But on the face of it, though, this suggests that he has an affinity. With those dragons. Yes he does. It's really interesting. I love it. And the descripting is just so cool. Yeah, it's just George's descriptive right, and it's just it's it has no equal. It's very very good. But yeah, great great passage. Absolutely love it. Do you have any other Tarrian thoughts? I don't, but do you well, one or two? Lovely? So there's a missing battle from the TV show that, well, it's certainly missing from Tyrian's perspective. I think they made a bit of a joke of his character, to be honest with you, because there, Yeah, Terrian gets knocked out flat in his back, wakes up after the battle, and that's not how it went down. Terran was absolutely present in the battle and killed men with his bare hands, you know, practically. Yeah, he was writing the thick of it. And so when looking at that, I was like, right, okay, I'm going to make a big deal about this battle. And then I looked a little bit further and I was like, actually, we kind of missed the whole war. So here we have the battle breakdown of book one that you didn't get to see on screen. This is so awesome, right, Okay, so give me a sick This is why I love this stuff. So where do you think the war really began? Did it begin when Catlin took Trian? Was it when someone tried to execute Bran or was it when John Aaron died? Who knows? Who knows? Really, I mean, it's a chain of events. But let's just say for the purposes of this conversation that it began when Catlin took Terryan because that is when Taiwan Lanister raised an army. Right, Okay, so first of all, Taiwan dispatched the Mountain Gregor clagain to disrupt the riverlands. Right. This was to stop them gathering forces and potentially draw out Ned so that he could be captured. Jamie fucked that up when he had the fight when Ed in the streets. So, but that was initially Taiwan's plans send Gregor clagain off to draw Ned out, but Ned was like, no, no, no, What I'm going to do is I'm going to send off Bericks and Darien on a hundred men and they're going to deal with mister Clegaine. And then Jamie goes to join his dad after his fighter net as well. So Ned's execution triggers the Stark army and it's rob Marchy's South to Lanison armies invading the riverland. Jamie fought two battles at the Golden Tooth and at River Run, and then sieged the castle at River Run. Yep, right, it started out to draw head out and then it was just like you know, the Tullies are obviously united to the Starks. We're going to take take them on. So meanwhile at the mummers Ford buricked Dundarien and one hundred of his knights had encountered Clagaan with the vanguard and had a big battle. Dundarien and a small group of survirivors escaped and continued as gorilla fighters throughout the war cool and they became the Brotherhood without Banners, which we will hear much of in book two. So anyway, so Timing then moves in with his main army into the riverlands. He goes via a much more southern route and taking some lesser houses along the way, trying to flank River Run, and he was he was heading towards the Veil, obviously another stronghold united to Catlin Stark, you know, through her sister. So he was moving towards the vale, but he hadn't quite reached Harron Hall yet at this point. Meanwhile, thinking that Jamie would be taking care of what's going on in the river lands. So Jamie's army is sieging River Run tailand's moving towards the Vale of Aaron. So at this point Tyland's winning, he really is. He's got them on the back foot. The Stark army is still in the north. So Rob crosses at the Twins and so he's leaving, leaves the majority of these forces, the pikes, archers and the men at arms with Ruth Boltan, and they then mark south through the night to arrive a mile north of Taiwan near the in at the crossroads. So the Starks have maybe sixteen five hundred men left after Rob left with all the mounted troops the Starks, the Stark Army, not specifically the Starks, but the Stark Army attacks first right down the center. Right, We've got on the right, we've got mar Brand who's got about four thousand cavalry. In the middle, we've got Kevin Lanistar with ten thousand pikes, archers and swords. On the left, we've got Conklin with mounted archards, the tribesmen and Tyrian, et cetera, all the mercenaries and a kind of a rabble of unruly types. You know, they're almost match They're not a coordinated army, are these the I. Love that you've broken this down because it's like I didn't. I haven't absorbed this, yeah in that way, which it's really cool for me. So it'll be really cool for everyone else listening that hasn't absorbed it in that, I hope. So, so those the Rabbity people, is that like Shaga and stuff? Yes? Absolutely, and Gregork again is leading that vanguard along with Tyrian. They're all mount Aid and they've got the river on their left. Yeah. So my brain's process and the bits, the bits from the show, the bits for the book that I remember, I remember more of the show if I'm honest, So I must, I must absolutely be a more visual. Well, there's a lot of really descriptive writing from Tyrian, and he's thoughts about people and who they all are that comes into this thing as well. So it's kind of the details are all broken up by Georgie's wonderful descriptive writing. But I thought, do you know what, let's just focus on what actually happened on the battles. Yeah, because it's like there's so much that just went it didn't happen in the TV show. We didn't see these battles, and these battles and themselves I think could have made a fantastic show in themselves. Obviously they were going to have the budget for that in season one. Sadly, sadly, but anyway, so here we are right. I've got a couple of quotes here. Oh, this is a good one. So the vanguard was made up of the sweepings of the West, mounted archers and leather jerkins, a swar by, massive undisciplined free riders and sells herds, field hands on plow horses, armed with sighs and their father's rusted swords. Half trained boys from the Jews of Lannisport and Terry and these mounted clansmen. Crow Food Brawn muttered beside him, giving voice to what Terry had left un said. He could only nod had his lower father taking the leave of his sentence. No pikes to Hugh Boma, bare handful of knights, the ill armed, and the unarmored, commanded by an unthinking brute who led with his rage. How could his father expect this travesty of a battle to hold his left And he knows, he knows. Indeed, Kevin Lanister has also got through undred cavalry with him right in the middle, and Taiwan is behind with another five thousand reserves. First of all, I want to do a week quote here, because this is Terry and describing his father on the battlefield taiwand Lanister's battle armor put his son Jamie's gilded suit to shame. His great cloak was sown with from countless layers of cloth of gold, so heavy that it barely stirred even when he charged, so large that it's drape covered most of the stallion's hind quarters when he took the saddle. No ordinary clasp would suffice for such a weight, so the great cloak was held in place with a matched pair of miniature lion essays crouching on his shoulders as if poised to spring their mate. A male with a magnificent mane reclined a top Taiwan's great hell one paw raking the air as he roared. All three lions were rotten gold with ruby eyes. His armor was heavy steel plate, enameled and dark crimson graves and gauntlets inlaid with ornate gold scrollwork. His rondel's were golden some bursts, and all his fastenings were gilded, and the red steel was burnished to such a high sheen that it shone in the fire in the light of the rising sun. Taiwan, You, Bougie get. Totally. It's very elaborate. He's a bit extra, is a bit you sure? Straight? He sounds ready camped, doesn't he? He does? Does? He certainly knows how to pull an outfit together. Certainly does. It's giving Where were we? So yeah, on the left side, Clagan's mounted renegades moved to attack. Taiwan's plan was a trap, expecting them to lose. But they smashed through the shield wall anyway, and actually one on that side. So I love this quote from the Mountain here is it says any man ransall cut him down myself. He was roaring when he caught sight of Terry in imp take the left, hold the river if you can. So does he hold the river? I'm excited now they absolutely do. So they break through because Taiwan sees this opportunity. He then moves his reserve troops in behind them. So Kevin pushes the pike walls forward and the starts start to retreat. Rous escapes with about twelve thousand unharmed soldiers because it was all a ruse. This was just to poke the bear while Rob and his six thousand mountained troops can go and sort of what's going on at river run? So yeah, they absolutely, it was all just just a big distraction. Hey, look as we're a huge army, we want to fight, and Taiwan fell for it. He absolutely fell for it. But from Tyrian's perspective, like, so much more happened. I mean, there's so many great lines here from Oh there's too many quotes and I can do them all right. Like Tyrian, he's absolutely conscious during the whole battle. I think there's a moment where he kind of gets a bit dizzy, but when he kind of comes to it, he's still fighting the same guy, so he can't have been out for long, so he's there for the whole battle. They go and they charge in, they break through the shield wall. They absolutely take out the Starks on that side. The he's fighting hand to hand combat, he gets knocked off his horse, he's he's in the mud, and then he sees his father come charging in, you know, the reserves sweeping up. But the Stark army's already in retreat by this point. So yeah, the only real action happened on Tyrian's side of the battle. And yeah, that was what was cut from the show. Yeah that's quite sad, it really is. But I've got one more quote here. So this is from this part of the war, but it's when Tyrian speaks to his father afterwards. Your weld men fought well. His father's eyes were on him, pale green, flecked with gold, so cool they gave Tyrian a chill. Did that surprise you, father, he asked, I upset your plans. We were supposed to be butchered, were we not. Lord Taiwan trained his cup, his face expressionless. I put the least disciplined men on the left. Yes, I anticipated that they would break. Rob Stark, as a green boy, more like to be brave than wise, I'd hope that when he saw our left collapse, he might plunge into the gap, eager for a route. Once he was fully committed, Sir Kevin's pikes would wheel and take him from the flank, driving him into the river, while I brought up the reserve. And you thought it best to place me in the midst of all this carnage. Yet keep me agrounded of your plans. A faint route is less convincing, his father said. And I'm not inclined to trust my plans to a man who consorts with sell swords and savages. A pity my savages ruined your dance, Terry, and pulled off his steel gauntlet and let it fall to the ground, wincing at the pain that stabbed up his arm. The stark boy proved more cautious than I expected for one of his years, Lord Taiwan admitted, But a victory is a victory. You appear to be wounded. Terryan's right arm was soaked with blood. Good if you notice, father, he said, through clenched teeth, might have trouble you to send your masters unless you relished the notion of having a one armed wharf for a son. And I got one other we highlight. Here is just a sentence, and it's afterwards Terry and thinking a green boy, Terryan remembered, more like to be brave than wise. He would have laughed if he hadn't hurt so much. But yeah, that is so disappointing that that that battle was missing because it was pivotal. Yeah, a lot happened there, and I don't think the next part as well, with Jamie and stuff like that, that none of that really came across on the show. Afterwards, They just get, oh, we've captured Jamie Lanister. Yeah, it's like you had a battle, did you So any thoughts on the battle yourself that you've heard it laid out like that? You know what, it's really cool to hear it laid out rather than well, I mean, I've already read it, so but it didn't absorb in my head like that. It was way better that you have broken it down and given it to me in that way. Excellent. So I felt like I could picture better the way that you've described that. So no, that that's really cool. Thanks for doing that. No worries. I have a part two? Yes, right, So what happened next? The River run again more of the war that we didn't see in the show. So Whiley was marching south, Rob Stark was recruiting more Riverlanders. Brindon Hilley the Blackfish had been on point and taken out Lanister Ravens and scouts, so they had no idea he was coming. Yeah, they did a great job. So Jamie's army is splenty three camps on the banks of the Tumblestone and the Red Fork Rivers, but they were unaware of the six thousand Stark Men lurking in the Whispering Wood on the north bank. Of the Tumbleston. So Jamie was continuously sending out little groups, often going out with them to see if he could catch any like scouts or taking out less lesser little houses around the area as well. And because he always went with the guys they'd sent out, it made the plan really easy, like he was quite predictable. They just had to wait for him to come out again. So what happened was Rob along with his own personal guard and the free horsemen were in the woods on the west the west of this valley right and then you've got the Whispering Wood on the right of the valley where the mallisters, the umbers, the more months, the greater part of the army. We're all hiding in the back. We have the car starks who were positioned back and off that they wouldn't have been seen at this point, ready to just come straight down the middle of this valley. And then Brindan Rivers the Blackfish, along with a few hundred riders comes to the shores of the tumble Sin and it was gives Jamie a wee wave and then runs back up the valley and Jamie of course follows them. Is this just arrogance? On Jamie's behalf. Yeah, absolutely, he thought, yeah, we've got the blackfish, right, he's been hanging about here being pesky for. Well, yeah, Jamie, he's totally going to wave. Yeah. So anyway, they then chased them back up the valley and Rob's forces just following up. He is just pincered. Yeah. They come in from both sides and in front. He is engulfed and his men go down. Jamie goes down swinging though, absolutely what was it so no one can fall Lanister on his courage, Glover says. When he saw that all was lost, he rallied his retainers and fought his way back up the valley, hoping to reach Lord Rob and cut him down, and almost did. He mislaid his sword and Edward Carstark's neck after he took Torren's hand off and split Darren horwood skull open. Rob said, all the time he was shouting for me, if they hadn't tried to stop him, I should then be mourning in place of Lord Carstark cat and said, your men did what they were sworn to do. Rob. They died protecting their leege Lord grief for them, Honor them for their valor. But not now. You have no time for grief. You may have lopped the head of a snake, but three quarters of the body is still coiled around my father's castle. We have won the battle, not a war. Very true, See what I mean about what we were saying earlier about Catlin having a lot more political awareness than comes across from the show. So Rob then moves his army back into the wood and south towards the remaining Lanister forces that are on the north bank. He attacks them, coming down from the Whispering Wood and attacks these Larsters on the north bank. The Laristers on the opposite side of the river start pushing up towards them, and a fight ensues here between these guys. Right meanwhile, the Larister troops that are on the south west side of River Run, they start trying to cross the river, and some of Rob's men come down the river bank to meet them, and they then so they're. Just like a wall at this point, aren't they. Yeah, absolutely, they just come down to meet them. They take all of these guys out and that's that. Then you've got this Tyroshi mercenary captain who just defects to the northern side. He's like these guys are running then, and a whole load of other Lanister troops under Furley Prest retreat as well. They make a run for it. So yeah, it's just they absolutely crush all of the Lanister forces at River Run there, just because they take them by complete surprise. Yeah. I feel like the Lanishers have overcomplicated it as well. Yeah, we splitting their army like that, but because of the way River Run is situated, It's like. We would have been better crossing the river and meeting them on land. Really because they had the larger army, didn't they. Yes, they were all bandied together instead of being split up. Yeah, exactly, they did have a larger army because rob just took a you know, it was like six thousand troops. Yeah, bested by a what was he? He's fifteen in the book. Isn't he bested by a fifteen year old kid? Well done? Absolutely, It's like that, are you smarter than a ten year old? Clearly not. And yeah, Jamie must be about thirty by this point as well, And I'm thinking about him being a teenager and the element that towards the end of the Mad King's reign he was sixteen or something. So how old was he when he. Was sixteen when he became a member of the King's Guard I believe, and it was maybe a year or two after that's no more than eighteen, I would say, that's a guess. Don't have anything else to add on this, No, I didn't. We're good. So this is the war that they missed from the show. That's such a shame for Tirian's sake. It is actually especially yeah, for that one particular character, even more so. But I would have been great to see some of this battle. Oh sorry, one more quote, because this is like, this is Rob taking gray Wind into battle with him? Oh cool? And yeah, we don't. It's not something we see in the show at all. Really, we hear of it, it's mentioned, but it doesn't happen anyway, Let me do this quote afterwards. She could not claim to have seen the battle, yet she could hear the valley rang with echoes, the crack of a broken lance, the clash of swords, the cries of Lanister and Winterfell, and Tully River running Tully. When she realized there was no more to say, she closed her eyes and listened. The battle came alive around her. She heard hoof beats, iron boots splashing in the shallow water, the woody sound of swords on oaken shields, and the scrape of steel against steel, the hiss of arrows, the thunder of drums, the terrified screaming of a thousand horses. Men shouted curses and begged for mercy and got it or not, and lived or died. The Ridges seemed to play queer tricks with sound. Once she heard Rob's voice, as clear as if he had been standing right by her side, calling to me, to me, And she heard his dire wolf snarling and growling, heard the snap of those long teeth, the tearing of flesh, shrieks of fear and pain from man and horse alike. Was there only one wolf? It was hard to be certain. Little by little the sounds dwindled and died, until at last there was only the wolf. As a red dawn broke in the east, gray wind began to howl again. Oh so good, Yeah. Such good writing. Love it. You just close your eyes and just picture it the same way. Catlin is awesome writing, awesome writing. So that breaks that brings us to the conclusion of our battle, breakdown, and you know, a little bit of a lotle bit of props to Rob Stark there, what a strategist is such a young age? Well done. Yeah, absolutely, he won that one and he keeps winning for a while. He absolutely outsmarts those last armies quite a lot in the next book too, So we'll do that when we cover our book two. Nice, excellent. So where does that bring us to? It brings us to our dragon section. Yay. So we're bending the rules slightly here and we're just calling the whole Dan Eeries section the dragon section because she is the blood of the dragon. Yes, absolutely, and just wouldn't be an episode of the Cast of Ice and Fire without our dragon section. What we're going to do during duncan. Egg I have to have an egg section with a boying noise? What else do you have for an egg? A crack? I actually think we'll find a way to have our dragon section. But no spoilers, right, So so Denis, I mean you go first? What have you got? Obviously there's absolutely loads about her in the book, and there's loads pertaining to dragon. For me, picking a best bit, I really liked the Wake the Dragon dream that she had because Wake the Dragon throughout the book when Vissari's is still alive is basically you're going to you're getting a beat in, Yes, but Wake the Dragon becomes something else when she has this dreams. The excerpt that I have is ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings, and their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold, and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and Jede do like that bit faster They cried faster, faster she raced. Now this is where I like it, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched faster. The ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open, and smelled the stench of burning blood, and saw the shadow of wings and Daneri's Targarian flew Wake the Dragon. Yes, so she's woken the dragon in her She is the dragon. Definitely. I think there's another hidden meaning in there too, And it comes if you break down again about taking out the descriptive write in and just sticking with the dialogue. And yeah, it goes it starts from like a memory of the series, and that kind of level. Don't want to wake the dragon? Do you don't want to wake the dragon? Want to wake the dragon? Wake the dragon? You see how it a little bit drops off every time, And there's all this beautiful descriptive right about what she's seeing and feeling, and it's absolutely brilliant. She just break it down to those you know, the way that line changes through it, it's a transition. It's her turning that thing that there was pain, that horrible memories are associated with, and given her power. And yeah, I think it's symbolically beautiful, just that transition. Love it. What the Danny stuff you got? That's it? Man, Like, that's it. This has been a long podcast. That's it. It has one each. That's where we are now. Oh well, fucked it. So I got a wee bit here my favorite Danny moments. I love the moment in the power. I love the hatching of the eggs. So just this moment of transition that Danny goes through and she's doing it and the fact is she knows what she's doing. She absolutely she's there with purpose. She one hundred percent has decided that she's figured this out. She knows how she's going to hatch these eggs. She tried before when she put them in the the brazier and everything there was almost it was like she understood that they needed to be heated up and that there was maybe something she was missing, but she was. She was onto something. It was instinct. And many other Targetians before her I tried to hatch dragon eggs since the dragons died out, and none had been successful. So who knows what it was that made Danny figure it out, but she did, and it's it's just amazing. It's the thing that we were hoping for this since the day she got handed the eggs. And I just I love the writing here. So the flames were so beautiful, the loveliest thing she'd ever seen, each one a sorcerer robed in yellow and orange and scarlet, swirling with long smoky cloaks. She saw crimson fire lions and great yellow serpents and unicorns made of pale blue flame. She saw fish and foxies and monsters, wolves and bright birds and flowering trees, each more beautiful than the last. She saw horse, a great gray stallion lined and smoke, its flowing mane of nimbus and blue flame. Yes, my love, my son and stars, Yes, mount now, right now. And in the next part she's like she heard the crack, the sounding shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in on itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Danny was showered with ash and cinders, and something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling to land at her feet, a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall, Danny heard heard women's shriek and children cry out in one her only death can pay for life. Oh so good, Yeah so deep. And she goes through this through each each egg cracks one by one, and the descriptive right of what she's going through in that moment, what she's seeing, what she's feeling. There's visions, there's you know, awareness of what's going on in the crowd. It's it's just so beautiful. But of course the best line is that final line. As Danari's Targetian rose to her feet, her black, hissed, pale smoke venting from his mouth the nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call. Translucent wings unfolding and sitting the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons. Oh babies, it's so cute, baby dragons. We love them. But yeah, it's such a great passage. Absolutely love it. And it just it's so much more than what you get in the show. You kind of get her walking into the fire and then the aftermath, you know, the fire is burnt out, she's in the smoke. That inner monologue of what she's seeing and feeling and the visions that she's having. None of that really comes across in the show. No, but you do get some wonderful acting. You can see the the love and the comfort that she has from these baby dragons. Yes, yeah, definitely. If there's a confidence that's there. Yeah, yeah, definitely, and that that comes through the transition that she's gone through in that moment is absolutely clearing the show. I will give it that. Yeah, but you just can't. You can't. That is what that is, isn't it. That is what that's that thing that that a show can't do, but we've also highlighted the that a book can't do. So I think overall, I think it's great to have both perfectives. And there's definitely some parts that definitely did come across better in the show and. And parts that came across better in the book. Oh many many more, yea many more parts that came across better in the book. But the show surprises here and there, and it was down to great acting, great right in and often the righting was Georgie's because a lot of this was for Beta. Yeah. Yeah, But the parts where they changed it, I feel, apart from taking stuff out, the things that they added I think were great, like Varis and Milsh and you know, I think I think what was added was great and I think what was taken away was missed. But only if you read the book. Yeah, does that makes sense? What are your overall thoughts since we're reaching unless you've got more to about Danny. Sorry, I just no. Overall thoughts. Yeah, just exactly what you were saying there. But the injection of humor in the show for me, yeah, was the was the best part of the difference with the show. But the inner Monologues was the best part of the books. Yes book, yes, so yeah. Not a waffler, not a waffle more this evening. That's it up to the point. That's fair, that's good. No, I think I think we've done a great job. Of I think relieved would be a better description. I'm relieved. I'm not waffling. Yeah right. Well, in fact, if we've done final thoughts, I think that brings us to the rip section. In this episode, we said goodbye to Sir way More Royce and also Garrett and Will of the Night's Watch and now their. Watch has ended, rest in peace. We also said goodbye to John Aaron, Lady the Dire Wolf, and Micah the Butcher's Boy. We also said goodbye to Vicelli's Targetia Burning Hell Hunt, Sorry, Cal Drogo some Stars. We started with a post Fancy. Bubbles and Rago Darny's an Unborn Trial. We also said goodbye to Joy Cassell, Love Time, Robert Barathian, and Septa Ordine. Oh Per. These ones hurt the heart. Finally say goodbye to Cirio Forrell and Edd started. Oh no, it was the biggest shock of that story first time round. It was out fucking outrageous. We never saw it coming, and then it was the moment they taught us. To learn, do not fall in love with a character from Game of Thrones. They all fucking die. So I think that brings us to the end. For now. This has been our anniversary special and wow, it took hagase, didn't it. It was really in depth and there's still so much more we could have said, but you know, in the interest of timekeeping, we've like narrowed it down. Even then, I still feel like it's been really long. Absolutely, it's been a joy to do it though. Absolutely, yeah it has. And we'll be back later in the year for book two. We're going to be focusing on the Witcher for the foreseeable future. Oh my god, different world. I know so much new Lord to learn. Can't wait. So I suppose that that's it for a Cast of Ice and Fire until we will be back with book two and then Duncan Egg, hopefully in the new year, if they don't push it back again. Yeah, it's gonna be a busy year for us. Next year, We've got Duncan Egg, We've got a House of the Drag again. We'll be doing more book versus show podcast as well in between. But for the rest of this year, I think we're going to be shoving ourself firmly into the continent and exploring the world of the Witcher. Awesome. That'll be great. In the meantime, if you want to contact us. If you want to get into head over to the Unreal Hour dot com. You'll find our episodes on social media links there. Give us a like, follow, or subscribe. You can also leave us a voice message we might even feature it on the show, or just email us at talk at the unrel Hour dot com. And don't forget to check out our YouTube channel. We've for a new video coming. Soon, plus our brand new podcast, tossa Casta Your Witcher is coming next. Keep an eye out for it and join us for that rewatch. And if you love what we're doing, you can support the show at Patreon dot com, Forward slash the Unrelour for ad free episodes, early access and explosive content. Or bias a coffee at buyne Coffee dot com. Slash the Unrelour. Everybody helps keep the show runner. Thanks for listening. 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